News

Bruce Springsteen "The Album Collection Vol. 1 1973-1984"—First Look

Michael Fremer  |  Nov 18, 2014

Legacy's long awaiting Bruce Springsteen vinyl box set arrived so analogplanet.com editor Michael Fremer unboxed it with the camera rolling. Have a look:

COMMENTS
Toptip's picture
Submitted by Toptip on Tue, 2014-11-18 18:16

All this new vinyl coming out makes me think of a picture I once saw. It was of some lacquer cutting Eminence, a master of his profession, going about his craft, observing the grooves through some proctologist's probe. So far so good. Now, above the lathe were some shelves, overloaded with files and other crap, all precariously angling towards the lacquer. And, oh, the Eminence was smoking a cigarette.

In the 80s I bought three copies of Tom Waits's Blue Valentine on LP. All three were unlistenable. I thought that long suffering Pall Mall filter must finally have shed its ashes on my particular lacquer. Luckily a CD version came out a few years later and I was able to hear those wonderful songs without all the coffin nail debris.

Which makes me wonder...have lathe operators of today learned a thing or two from hi tech or even just lowly CD manufacture? Like clean rooms, air filtration, no pizza on the job, even may be a lid for the lathe?

Joe Crowe's picture
Submitted by Joe Crowe on Tue, 2014-11-18 19:18

I have tried without success to initiate a forum on at least three sites encouraging vinyl lovers to share their experiences with reissues regarding the physical discs as opposed to the sound. I have purchased 180/200 gram etc. reissues of beloved titles only to find the actual plastic to be of very suspect quality. Sometimes it looks like the record, scuff marks, blank areas etc. but more often the plastic looks fine and clean but garbage still intrudes into the sound as is the apocryphal cigarette ash finally found its' way into the production chain. Not one bite from anyone wanting to discuss this issue to date. I think the first attempt was four years ago. Everyone wants to proclaim the sonic merits or "demerits" of a particular re-issue but examining the actual pressing seems to be of zero interest especially when it come to the sonic degradation that occurs after a mere two or three plays. Is anyone playing these records and if so is anyone playing these records longer than it take to write a review?

Michael Fremer's picture
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Wed, 2014-11-19 14:49
Pressings from RTI, QRP, Pallas, Optimal, GZ and now these Springsteen reissues pressed at MPO in France are for the most part extremely quiet and well-pressed. Have been just found this website? We cover in great detail both sound and pressing quality. If you're getting degradation after a few plays you need either a new turntable and/or cartridge or check you set-up! What you've written makes no sense whatever to me.
Joe Crowe's picture
Submitted by Joe Crowe on Wed, 2014-11-19 17:33

Sorry Mike but we will agree to disagree about this for a long time. I first encountered TAS around 1976 at my local high end dealer. Shortly thereafter learned that the university library had all back issues. Subscribed at that point and set about reading all back issues while eagerly awaiting the new ones. Your writing was one of the things I really enjoyed and during that period I added a vast amount of knowledge to my natural love of natural sound. I continued as a loyal subscriber for many years even adding TPV to the mix. I kind of gave up around the same time as the rest of the "old school" subscribers did but have never forgotten what I learned.

Flash forward to today. I listen to vinyl on a VPI Classic with VTA tower. Classic II didn't actually exist when I purchased, it was just a special order. My cart at the moment is a Dyna 20x2 fed into a Moon 310LP, I have the 320LP on order. I set up my table through a combination of Mint Best and Adjust+. My records are cleaned on a VPI Typhoon using Disc Doctor miracle fluid and a good rinse with triple distilled de-ionized water. As a dedicated audio/vinylphile I am always open to suggestions so please tell me where I have gone wrong.

Back to the topic at hand, it seems nobody wants to talk about the vinyl of their re-issue purchases. I am not suggesting they are bad or that some nefarious plot is afoot I just want to hear and share other music lovers experiences. The TOTAL lack of response over four years tells me something. Not sure what yet. My only intent was to learn what others have found and maybe get some guidance as to who does a better job and who doesn't. The topic of wear on vinyl (premature or otherwise) is near and dear and money for vinyl has to be portioned out like anything else in my household(married, kids, etc.) As to making no sense I remember I guy who was told he made no sense when he disagreed with the "experts" over the sound of CDs. One persons experience should never be dismissed out of hand simply because you have not (yet) encountered it yourself. Sorry if this had gotten a little long winded but you can probably understand why. To anyone else reading this if you have information to offer regarding your experience with the physical aspect of re-issues I would love to hear from you.

RobWynn's picture
Submitted by RobWynn on Wed, 2014-11-19 18:24

You seem to imply in your original post that the common denominator with your reissue problems is the weight of the vinyl (180g and 200g), so have you not had the issue with 150g or 140g re-issues?

There are many re-issue labels nowadays, plus re-issues have been happening for decades now. For example, are you referring to ABC reissues of Impulse titles in the 70s or re-issues since the 00's or in the 10's by labels like Rhino, Sundazed, AP, Light In The Attic, Numero Group, etc.?

Personally, I buy so much vinyl unfortunately it takes a long time for me to play something 2-3 times so I can't answer the question at the moment. But maybe we have a re-issue title in common so that I can give feedback once played a few times.

Can you list 5-10 titles that you've had problems with, and include the details such as re-issue label, when re-issued, and the problem you are hearing with them after 2-3 listens? That might get something started as it will give people something specific to reply to instead of just your general complaint.

Joe Crowe's picture
Submitted by Joe Crowe on Wed, 2014-11-19 22:12

I think you missed the all important "etc.". Unlike Tom Port I have no issue regarding the weight of re-issues. Just trying to impart my observation that some of the highly touted and highly priced re-issues I have acquired haven't lived up to the promise that preceded them in reviews and advertising. Also I am not trying to cast any aspersions on the re-issue world as a whole. Every one else debates whether original, Classic, minty RL etc. (that phrase again) sound better and the debate is often as far from scientific as possible. All I have attempted is to invite like minded individuals to throw in their 2 cents worth regarding the current state of cutting, plating, stamping and so on. To that end I have no intention of "listing" every disc I have heard that didn't come off as well as it might. It's like the online computer experts who in response to a request for help ask for every detail of your system down to the MAC address of the CPU only to reply that they never heard of your particular problem. Like they needed that level of minutia to say no sorry can't help you. I could say there is a particularly nasty pop XX seconds into side two of DaDaDa special vinyl XYZ only to be told by a panel of responders "No sorry never heard that before". What's the point, just hoping for some stimulating conversation from some knowledgeable listeners nothing more. To satisfy your curiosity though I will tell you that I have always found Doug MacLeod's Come to Find to be an especially fine sounding recording so much so I wore out my first copy over many years. When they re-issued it with great fanfare a year or so ago I was thrilled and had a pre-order long before it released. When I received it the first side had numerous annoying ticks and pops but hey I wasn't complaining the sound was delicious. Side two however was so bad I had to send it back and shipping cost me over half the original price. Some tracks sounded like the groove was full of debris but looked as clean as polished glass. The new copy was much better but still not good and all the hash was in almost the exact same places. The MoFi of Blood on the Tracks sounded very good to my ears but groove noise between tracks was horrible, sounding as if it had been played an a "GrooveGrinder 500" before shipping. Also my copy of the Basement Tapes arrived with two of disc one and no disc 2. It took forever to get a replacement. Not an audio issue I know but a quality control one and I think that may be the whole point here. Two albums that developed "personality" more quickly than I expected were re-issues of the first albums by Warren Zevon and Boz Scaggs. A short list I know but as I said I am looking for some discussion not a witch hunt or a catalogue of deficiencies.

Paul Boudreau's picture
Submitted by Paul Boudreau on Thu, 2014-11-20 05:31

The only problems I've recently had with new LPs are a few with little bits of sticky black goop on them that escaped the Nitty Gritty. The most recent one was a MoFi of Santana III and another was Neil Young's "Psychedelic Pill." They're hard to spot, being black, but you certainly do hear them when you play the LPs.

Joe Crowe's picture
Submitted by Joe Crowe on Thu, 2014-11-20 06:10

A good argument for thorough cleaning of new records although even that is hotly debated.

teachscience's picture
Submitted by teachscience on Thu, 2014-11-20 19:49

Cleaning a new record is not optional. They sound so much better when cleaned that you would need to be deaf IMO.

Joe Crowe's picture
Submitted by Joe Crowe on Thu, 2014-11-20 20:12

Powerful phrase that one. Personally, couldn't agree more and the fact I was willing to shell out for a Typhoon kind of proves it. However if you browse the audio press carefully enough over a long enough time frame you will find some highly respected writers who not only aren't big on cleaning but actively oppose it. Each to their own I guess but for me cleaning rules.

Paul Boudreau's picture
Submitted by Paul Boudreau on Sat, 2014-11-22 14:50

I can see not wanting to bother (been there) but "actively oppose?" On what grounds, pray tell?

Joe Crowe's picture
Submitted by Joe Crowe on Sat, 2014-11-22 15:33

Over the years I have consumed an awful lot of articles regarding record care and handling. Might not be able to give chapter and verse of what I have read but I have a fabulous memory for the meat of the matter. Suffice to say I have come across writers who resist cleaning for whatever reason. Some (possibly vegans) claim cleaning fluids are hazardous to a records health, others chant the mantra which many reading here will have encountered "let the stylus do the cleaning". Not my philosophy so please don't ask ME to explain.

Paul Boudreau's picture
Submitted by Paul Boudreau on Sat, 2014-11-22 16:17

what you had read advocating that approach, thanks.

Joe Crowe's picture
Submitted by Joe Crowe on Sat, 2014-11-22 19:35

really matter? How about I tell you about the DJ who advocated putting records in a deep freeze because as he claimed the cold caused the grooves to contract pushing the dirt out. As it is I don't make of point of documenting things I come across that I don't particularly agree with but don't object to strongly enough to take notes. Sorry.

Joe Crowe's picture
Submitted by Joe Crowe on Sun, 2014-11-23 08:22

I did some scratching around for you Paul. This is an amusing link but check the first post from "Moriarty".

http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/archive/index.php?thread-25572.html

Also here is a DIY video, interesting in a strange way but check a comment near the bottom from "Craig Potts".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcgiDCW98Oc

I know both links reference Linn and another I looked at swears it's a lie but someone put forth the idea and I remember it being taken as sound advice. Also, I think Mike can confirm that at least one staffer at TAS in the old days subscribed to this philosophy. Lots of stuff rolling around in my attic, not too sure how it all got there.

I am guessing there is lots more around but hopefully this suffices.

Paul Boudreau's picture
Submitted by Paul Boudreau on Sun, 2014-11-23 09:46

ingenuity at work, I suppose! The deep-freeze approach is my favorite so far. The "let the stylus do the work" approach seems a little suspect to me - wouldn't that just drive dirt & such into the groove walls? Who knows? Whatever the method, I've read more than once of the necessity of cleaning an LP before each playing. I'm willing to do my bit to keep my records clean but that reeks of insanity to me. Of course, I've seen that look in others' eyes when I describe what an RCM does and mention that I actually own one. They don't actually back away slowly, facing me, but I can tell that they want to.

Joe Crowe's picture
Submitted by Joe Crowe on Sun, 2014-11-23 10:08

An another note, I have heard it discussed elsewhere that the pressure of the stylus (huge if measured in sq. in.) was sufficient to partially melt the vinyl as it passed through allowing debris to be permanently "welded" to the groove wall. Lots of theories abound, not all sane. I'm more like you in that a spin on the VPI, Nitty Gritty, KMRC etc. before every playing should have its' own chapter in the OC manual. Plus when would you ever get to play records? For me a really good turn on the Typhoon before playing and a quick swipe with a carbon fiber brush subsequently satisfies my inner fanatic. If the CFB is grounded it also does a decent job on static.

J.D.'s picture
Submitted by J.D. on Sun, 2014-11-23 09:17

There are different approaches to record care. Not wanting the lp equivalent of a dishwasher in your small space may not indicate "not wanting to bother" or laziness, but a viable alternative.

What is that alternative ? First of two: Never buy grunge when you buy records. Some love the hit+miss diamond-in-le-merde vibe of schlepping thru miles of thriftshop garbage and then crossing fingers that an RCM session will yield something playable. Is the price differential so intoxicating that thriftshop-merde for fifty cents is preferable to reliable record-store copies, (cleaned already if a good shop) that you can inspect for real and purchase for two to four dollars ? Not for me. (And no it's not always 2-4 dollars. It goes thru the roof from there, but you can assemble a collection at that level. And then get exotic.)

Two of Two: The standard procedures apply for good record care once you buy the records. Anything doubtful at all, a couple wet cleans with a DiscWasher or equivalent, and both new and used get the initial clean. Then a new inner sleeve, new and clean, and proper storage, out of dust and sun. On each play, a procedure like a carbon-fiber brush to stir any detritus followed by a wet-then-dry cycle like the rotation of the DiscWasher provides --- will pretty much keep things immaculate. In about 45 seconds. Oh, and a swoosh with the stylus brush before play.

The combination -- no crap records in the in-box, ever, and then methodical care, cleaning and storage during use-- will get you into the last percentiles of resolution with records.

If you like to wear a go-pro on your head and a white labcoat, if you live in a transcription-mastering room and want ultra-rez playback because the audio police might visit at any moment-- this will not be enough. You will want to build an extension onto your space to set up the cleanroom drying racks and water filtration ionizers and vacuum-cleaning high pressure RCMs.

Those of us who are meticulous record keepers & players, true (not cult) audiophiles that live in small urban spaces and aren't afraid of the audio operatives bashing the door in-- may not need all that.

Bottom line, everybody draws their line in the sand. Live life, do what you do.
J.D.

Paul Boudreau's picture
Submitted by Paul Boudreau on Sun, 2014-11-23 09:36

As an apartment dweller myself, I don't consider that having a Nitty Gritty in the bathroom makes me an extreme fanatic but opinions may vary! Cleaning records with an RCM is both boring and tedious but the results can't be argued with, I think.

J.D.'s picture
Submitted by J.D. on Sun, 2014-11-23 09:50

I certainly wouldn't consider that "having a nitty gritty in the bathroom" of an apartment makes that person fanatical, but I dunno, I'll also willing to bet that *most* people would.

And as I always note, if I were archiving a priceless set of vinyl titles for history, I would absolutely try to get my hands on a vacuum-rcm for the outing. And a transcription table that allowed for some clamp-age, both center and peripheral.

But for real-live Real Life, outside the conditions of museum/ laboratory requirements, Buying Clean + Playing Clean is really more than enough.

So yes, I would argue with the Rcm use as a regular feature of the Lp lifestyle. Way, way too much blah on the net about how you absolutely need all that (and the clamps, seven alignment tools, SRA usb camera, machines that go 'ping' etc)-- puts people off about this very simple playback medium.

And it attracts the nerd-geek contingent, leaving the cool people shaking their heads. Just saying.
J.

Paul Boudreau's picture
Submitted by Paul Boudreau on Sun, 2014-11-23 10:03

I understand the repulsion of the rantings of the lunatic fringe, in any sort of hobby/interest. However, I would argue that an RCM is essential for anyone who buys used/previously-played records, whether they appear clean or not, given that I'm convinced that the dirt you can't see is the cause of much noise. The aluminum-foil hat IS optional.

J.D.'s picture
Submitted by J.D. on Sun, 2014-11-23 11:26

Sorry, just simply not so. Millions of quite competent users --who aren't playing dirty or scratchy records- will agree. You simply do not need that level of clinical sterility if you buy records that were never abused or filthy in the first place.

And no, although a nice parry on "dirt you can't see"--- you aren't in danger of having "much noise" because you are so deceived by the complexities of seeing or not-seeing dust particles at great magnification. On the contrary, you can use simple systems to clean and ensure excellent playback clarity.

Guess it comes to this thing that we see on the Internet where you have experts telling new enthusiasts things like, "well, you're probably going to have your auto break down on a long trip if you don't adjust your valves yourself, with a Giant Valve Adjusterator Machine".

And I think you'll find that those advisors are always the proud owners of a Giant Vavle Adjusterator Machine, with all its complexities and needs. Just seems to work out that way.

And so you end up with the "expert" segment lording it over the "newbie" segment when it may just be that not everyone needs that spiffy *Adjusterator* level of super valve adjustment.

Guess at Analog Corner it's enough of a niche site that we can be super picky about these things. But let's not tell new users that something is essential that is certainly not.

I've had Rcms and I've lived without them. I've heard records in all kinds of before-after comparisons. Records may sound better after a good rcm clean, or they may even sound worse. I've more often seen them sound better, but that's if you can stand the noise, the ditzing around, & spare the space for cleaning, etc. An Rcm clean is a good thing, an optional thing, that needs to happen to a well-kept record MAYBE ONCE. But- in no way is the rcm a Universal or Essential requirement.

Better to concentrate on developing good Lp buying and inspection habits, and leave the Rcm's to the laser-measuring-speakers and cable-lift-insulator brigade.

No garbage in, no garbage out. There are too many records out there to fiddle around with rejuvenator gear & chemistry. Just don't buy it if it's crap; if you can't tell, there are ways to learn. If you buy a dog, sell it on. Rcm's no more work to reanimate wasted records than Clamps work to flatten warped records. Let's all be above board on this.
J.D.

Paul Boudreau's picture
Submitted by Paul Boudreau on Sun, 2014-11-23 11:49

"But let's not tell new users that something is essential that is certainly not."

I wrote "I would argue that...," clearly meaning that what followed was my opinion and I stick with it. Yours differs, which is fine with me. As far as "above board" goes, I never claimed that RCMs would "reanimate wasted records," by which I suppose you mean scratched or otherwise damaged vinyl. By the way, I'm trying to get to the point where all my records have been cleaned once on the Nitty Gritty.

J.D.'s picture
Submitted by J.D. on Sun, 2014-11-23 12:24

All good, understood.

Greg Curtis's picture
Submitted by Greg Curtis on Mon, 2015-05-04 11:09

I bought two copies of Darkness on the Edge of Town, as individual album releases, and in Racing in the Streets right at the beginning of the outro (which is extensive, and one of the best passages on the whole album) and was dismayed to hear a medium level click for the next 30 revelations. Both purchases did it in exactly the same place and had the same numbers scratched into the center of the vinyl. These numbers were 88875014251-A. What gives?! Were the indvidual releases not pressed in France? Where were they pressed? Other than that they sound fabulous. But what a huge disappointment when the sound is clear, with headroom around all instruments, finally, except for the clicking in the best part of the album. Anyone experience this?

Greg Curtis's picture
Submitted by Greg Curtis on Mon, 2015-05-04 11:13

I bought two copies of Darkness on the Edge of Town, as individual album releases, and in Racing in the Streets right at the beginning of the outro (which is extensive, and one of the best passages on the whole album) and was dismayed to hear a medium level click for the next 30 revelations. Both purchases did it in exactly the same place and had the same numbers scratched into the center of the vinyl. These numbers were 88875014251-A. What gives?! Were the indvidual releases not pressed in France? Where were they pressed? Other than that they sound fabulous. But what a huge disappointment when the sound is clear, with headroom around all instruments, finally, except for the clicking in the best part of the album. Anyone experience this?

J.D.'s picture
Submitted by J.D. on Thu, 2014-11-20 12:52

* I think quite often the generic 'handlers' of the product (not mastering engineers) may be the nightshift wake-&-bake brigade that could care less and flaunt it. Or those who might just as well be packaging Halloween Outfits For Pet Dogs or something.

* I also think that perhaps the few reviewers out there who do go out of their way to do vinyl may often be --naturally- getting preproduction-run, test pressings, or at least early first pressings. Maybe they just don't get the trickle-down later pressings we get. And so there may just be a plausible bit of who-saw-what-when mystery involved.

* And often it seems like this (vinyl rerelease) sector is all about the music fanatics, (ie, completists and superfans of artist) so perhaps they're so pleased at the miracle of their favorite vinyl they're not inclined to speak up of small if clearly defective flaws here and there. They know that vinyl has a kind of hopeful-wishful release pattern, and a few titles vigorously complained about might cancel future ones. Just my guess on this one.

* And I think that there are certain amongst the supply chain type who know that there are braindead completest ultrafans, who would buy a Picture Disc of their artist -- even if there were no music on it. And that doesn't raise their regard for the overall buyer segment for vinyl. I think we in the audio enthusiast/ music enthusiast group forget our sometimes more blatant co-travelers, the "anything with that logo" sort of fan. Not our most shining moment.

* On the same tip I think *some* in the manufacture/market/retail pipeline may regard vinyl rerelease as a kind of fool's gold, supervaluable on release date, and later just a whole lot of bulky tax writeoff once no longer in vogue. So again, a kind of disregard for the whole format as it is these days.

* Another true annoyance is in that specialist sales chain. Brick/mortar owners treat loyal customers to seriously high markups. Why is that? They also treat them like shit if they learn they're using the net venues; as if they're disloyal to the markup man. Questionable ethically. And yet they're made to be heroes .. of something. There are those who are just sharks.

* Also, I've had more than one retail specialist --by which I mean actual Lp-Record-Store owner, and owner, not clerk--- castigate me on wanting to bring back a product with "only" a small defect. Like just a "mild" edge warp or a spot of glitch distortion. Their schtick: "..it's audio crazies like you who are putting our businesses on a razor's edge. Tiny defects shouldn't ruin anyone's Lp enjoyment, but your type obsess about it and cost us money. You know most distribs won't take our returns on little stuff like this, right? You're just killing us."
Again, that's from Record Store Owners, not Virgin or Best Buy or Amazon or something.

Just a few observations from life in the vinyl food chain. It's not all careful enthusiasts and knowledgeable music hipsters. There are dogs. Wearing the costume of vinyl advocates. Or selling ragged old bones to them.

(Ps this isn't a call for a whole lot of testimonial posts about 'great guys' who run music shops, lifetime dedication, all that. It's simply stating that there are unpleasant operators and dodgy product in this, and we have to act like consumers with rights, not like grateful Tiny Tim being blessed by the occasion.)
J.D.

Joe Crowe's picture
Submitted by Joe Crowe on Thu, 2014-11-20 14:32

Great comments J.D. and quite insightful. Loved the bit about record store owners who feel we put them on the razors edge. Wonder where they would be if we stopped buying altogether? Try living in Canada where shipping costs are extortionate because we never qualify for deals no matter how large the purchase and returns basically mean we buy the product twice and all local distributers have closed shop because NAFTA makes it easier to ship directly to the purchaser or record store. This is the main motivation for me trying to get real info from real customers regarding their experiences.

julio's picture
Submitted by julio on Thu, 2014-11-20 18:48

After several exchanges, I finally have a perfect beatles mono box set. I would say I return 40% of the vinyl I buy trying to find a copy that is scuff free or not slightly warped. It is a real pain and I only but from the top guys like music matters, acoustic sounds, speakers corner, mobile fidelity etc. What is funny is for as much crap as Simply Vinyl gets for their suspect sound quality, they should know how to press a perfect lp ( they soon went to crap in their last year or so). Oh yeah Classic Records, as good as they sound is real crap shoot for vinyl quality. Take a look at one of those babies under bright light.

Joe Crowe's picture
Submitted by Joe Crowe on Thu, 2014-11-20 20:23

Thanks for the post Julio. I originally created a bit of a stir referring to quality of reissues but on reflection what I really mean is quality of pressings after about 2000. Just cleaned a stack of vinyl delivered FedX today. Joe Bonamassa, Ballad of John Henry has a scar at the beginning of the second track that looks like either someone shoulder checked the turntable while the record was playing or some diabolical fiend tried to write their name with a sewing needle. Haven't played it yet so don't know if the thing extends into the "working area" of the vinyl. Sure hope not as it is Ugg-Lee. Also both Bonamassa's I received look as if the sleeve was actually very fine grit sandpaper. Not the kind of thing that affects sound but disheartening all the same.

Joe Crowe's picture
Submitted by Joe Crowe on Sat, 2014-11-22 10:14

The aforementioned scar tissue sounds worse than it looks rendering the track unlistenable. Doubly unfortunate as the rest of the disc appears flawless. $32 Cdn. plus shipping now I have to decide if it's worth $20. and associated headaches for me to return it. Already know I just can't be bothered but the mark is very mysterious as the only why I can imagine it happening is something being dropped on that spot.

Joe Crowe's picture
Submitted by Joe Crowe on Sat, 2014-11-22 10:15

The aforementioned scar tissue sounds worse than it looks rendering the track unlistenable. Doubly unfortunate as the rest of the disc appears flawless. $32 Cdn. plus shipping now I have to decide if it's worth $20. and associated headaches for me to return it. Already know I just can't be bothered but the mark is very mysterious as the only why I can imagine it happening is something being dropped on that spot.

Pat0903's picture
Submitted by Pat0903 on Sat, 2014-11-22 12:57

Soundstage Direct has a great return policy. Just call them, explain your problem, and they will send you a new album along with a return shipping label. They will even open the album and play it prior to sending it if you ask)to make sure the new one doesn't have the same issue as the one you're returning. Can't go wrong with this online dealer. And no, I don't work for them or know anyone who does.

Joe Crowe's picture
Submitted by Joe Crowe on Sat, 2014-11-22 15:38

First, the record was not purchased from Soundstage Direct.
Second, even with a pre-printed shipping label I am going to spend $15 -$20 to have the defective one returned. This is the joy of cross border shopping.

Michael Fremer's picture
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Fri, 2014-12-12 12:10
The story of Classic is: for years pressed at RTI and then they went "elsewhere" and all heck broke loose so...
Michael Fremer's picture
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Wed, 2014-11-19 09:41
Don't know to whom you are referring but the 1980's were not exactly vinyl's best days. Also, you have no idea what produced the noise you heard on the Tom Waits album but I'd bet it was more a pressing than a cutting issue. There are no "clean rooms" for record cutting or pressing but there are clean rooms. All of the rooms I've visited were clean rooms and the cutting engineers meticulous. Lathes don't need lids! Only one lacquer side gets cut so the bottom surface is moot but when I watch lacquers cut the platter usually gets a cleaning. I think the high quality vinyl coming out now speaks for itself.
audiotom's picture
Submitted by audiotom on Thu, 2014-11-27 03:08

Michael
I agree their were problems in the 70s-80s especially post 1973 oil imbargo
Lps were pressed with recycled vinyl with noisy impurities. Thats why japanese pressings were so desireable

That said I have Never encountered non fill back then. All to common today especially with all the 180g and 200g hype. Also records with prints on them, white areas of residue, what look like an iron pressed on the record, etc.

Granted there is not as much demand today and not as many pressing plants but qc is terrible today for many labels

Toptip's picture
Submitted by Toptip on Tue, 2014-11-18 20:27

It is said that Coke tastes better everywhere outside the US. Not being a Coke expert I cannot opine if that is so, whether it is because most other lands still use glucose rather than our mystery "fructose rich corn syrup" ingredient, or, my claim, because everywhere else Coke is bottled by Coke whereas here we have a cottage industry of "bottlers" who may be bottling Coke one day and Schmalz chicken fat the following. What do I know?

Now when you bought a DG classical you almost never had a major defect. It was always quiet, always a beautifully polished black, with crisply cut edges. Audiophiles will question DG's miking techniques, but that is unrelated. I can pretty much say the same for all my 70s - 80s purchased German rock records. The UK versions were not bad either. French ones too were excellent. (And of course shopping for records at the giant HMV store on Oxford Street was an unequaled pleasure.)

I suspect in those lands Polygram or Barclays, etc., operated company owned, industrial quality cutting and printing facilities, with qualified engineers, union labor with benefits, uniforms and so forth.

Were most of our records farmed out to cottage "bottlers" instead? Coffee pot on the side, labor as cheap as you can get it, a "good enough" mentality? There has to be a reason because rare is the US made rock record that does not have some flaw. Like some Coke spilled on it while drunk by the lathe or press operator. Or snorted.

readargos's picture
Submitted by readargos on Wed, 2014-11-19 07:27

one of the contributing writers published a chart of statistics he'd made as a purchaser of records during vinyl's heyday. He was buying albums in the U.K. He broke it down by label, and how many times he had to exchange/replace a record to get a good copy. Of course, some labels were better than others, but what I took away from it was that buying vinyl then was the same as now - I've had better luck from certain labels, but getting good copies the first time around is a bit of lottery. Overall, I feel I'm doing pretty well these days, never having had to replace some of the newest audiophile reissues more than once to get a good copy. Sure, I wish every copy I bought was perfect, especially when spending ~$35/album, but it seems part and parcel of vinyl. Most of us here prefer the sound of vinyl to digital, knowing that digital is about convenience (which includes portability). Unfortunately, vinyl's virtues arguably do not include convenience, beyond the convenience of home playback versus hearing an artist, band, or orchestra live that does not come to play in your area. There's still a bit of suffering involved with good vinyl playback, especially once you factor in cleaning rituals, even on new records.

Michael Fremer's picture
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Wed, 2014-11-19 09:55
I remember taking the subway into NYC to Sam Goody's and buying a copy of The Modern Jazz Quartet's "Pyramid". Got it home and it had outer edge warp that caused the stylus to jump and it had what I now know to be "non-fill". I had to get back on the bus and then the subway and go back to Sam Goody's for a replacement. Got home again and SAME THING! I also now know the blue and green label was a second pressing. I've since bought a solid green label on Ebay for $7.00 that sounds much better and was well-pressed!
Toptip's picture
Submitted by Toptip on Wed, 2014-11-19 09:59

I guess you have never heard of the inimitable "Philips Mignon"

http://images.delcampe.com/img_large/auction/000/155/961/063_001.jpg

When I was a child in Istanbul, every cabbie had one. They also stuffed a dozen 45s behind the sun visor.

A good one today goes for EUR750+ Just do not play anything valuable in it!

Michael Fremer's picture
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Wed, 2014-11-19 14:51
It played at 16 2/3s and tracked at about a ton or so. But what does that have to do with anything?
Toptip's picture
Submitted by Toptip on Wed, 2014-11-19 14:53

Convenience of vinyl!

Michael Fremer's picture
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Wed, 2014-11-19 09:44
Today's cutting engineers are mostly yesterday's. And the younger ones like Ryan K. Smith are doing some of the best work out there. Abbey Road cut lacquers then and now. Sterling, Masterdisk, Bernie Grundman Mastering, Kevin Gray (a veteran from Artisan), John Golden and the others have been doing this for many decades. I know of no "bottlers" (in the pejorative sense) cutting vinyl today.
analogkid14's picture
Submitted by analogkid14 on Wed, 2014-11-19 09:34

It's got to be better than the CBS vinyl presses from the seventies and eighties. I call it Yentnikoff vinyl, just terrible. I like Legacy reissues even on CD because so many of the vinyls are so bad. I hope these will be available seperately, I can't afford the box...

For an artist Like Bruce who proports to care about sound, his catalog has been ill-served. Bad vinyl, Bad CD's that should have remastered years ago, expensive box sets. Hopefully this set will right the ship

Michael Fremer's picture
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Wed, 2014-11-19 09:57
Was problematic for many labels not just Columbia...
David Andrews's picture
Submitted by David Andrews on Wed, 2014-11-19 19:24

... Unless you own a stiffer, thicker, Canadian 1970s pressing ...

tlat.com's picture
Submitted by tlat.com on Wed, 2014-11-19 10:35

All I'd like to see is Mikey on the cover of Newsweek or Time or both. Now that would be great.

Michael Fremer's picture
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Wed, 2014-11-19 14:53
I don't have one and am not sufficiently self-serving to write my own, but I am sufficiently self-serving to want one...So there you go..
analogkid14's picture
Submitted by analogkid14 on Wed, 2014-11-19 10:46

True that! I remember I had to exchange Stevie Wonder's Songs in the Key of Life four times before I got a copy that didn't skip. Of course, I played my records on a Sears combo stereo system when I was a kid so I wasn't doing myself any favors. I held on to the system and added a seperate turntable (Denon direct drive)running off a Radio Shack preamp. So that helped, good enough for my dorm room anyway.

I recently started buying vinyl reissues, and so far no real problems with vinyl quality. I exhanged a White Stripes LP once, Third Man were very nice. And recently, I had to exchange Zep III due to Side 2 being way off center. It's a bit of a pain since I do not have a good record store where I live. (Albany NY) I have to rely on mail order, B&N , Amazon are OK, and I've had good luck with Bull Moose

Thanks for responding, and for this website.

Michael Fremer's picture
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Wed, 2014-11-19 14:54
There's supposed to be an outstanding used record store in Albany. Isn't there?
analogkid14's picture
Submitted by analogkid14 on Wed, 2014-11-19 17:34

Yes sir , we have a couple of nice used record stores in Albany; Last Vestige in Albany, and River St Beat Shop in Troy NY. Both are terrific for used vinyl. Neither one carries new vinyl , except for a few Sundazed titles (Coxsackie NY is about 40 miles away) Neither participates in Record Store Day

For new vinyl, the only option is FYE, the biggest location has vinyl, but the prices are outrageous. Barnes & Noble has some vinyl,a very small selection, which with e-mail coupons, can be competiive price wise. So mail order is best for new vinyl. Bull Moose has been good, they are competitive and shipping is quick. I got Mono Masters and the Milt Jackson 10 inch Blue Note reissue Wizard of the Vibes, which sounds and looks great.

For the more specialized stuff, like Mo-Fi, or RCA Living Stereo reissues, I'll try Acoustic Sounds. On my wish wist are Coltrane Blue Train in mono, Reiner/ Rimsky-Korsakov, and Elvis Costello Get Happy from Mo-Fi

Paul Boudreau's picture
Submitted by Paul Boudreau on Thu, 2014-11-20 05:27

Not quite '70s but I remember exchanging Led Zeppelin I at least twice at good ol' E.J. Korvette's because of warpage.

vogelzang's picture
Submitted by vogelzang on Wed, 2014-11-19 13:58

I hope that The River has been improved or fixed in some way, although I'm not sure that it can be. The original pressing is almost unlistenable due to digital artifacts and has, to these ears, an nearly unbearable harshness. My wife, who cares little for the details of equipment or reproduction has great ears and has long served as my audio "idiot savant"--she refuses to listen to The River or what she calls "Bruce's screechy record". That about sums it up.....an early digital disaster, IMO.

Steelhead's picture
Submitted by Steelhead on Wed, 2014-11-19 15:17

I have most of Bruce on vinyl. As for sound quality well it sure does not stand out but overall is OK for my taste. I am not going to spring for the boxset but am very interested in your review. I remember when I bought the Dead live Winterland 73 boxset (cd) and was very impressed with the sound quality. I found out that the Plangent process was used on the boxset. It is one damn fine sounding redbook. I am interested in this process translates to vinyl.

my new username's picture
Submitted by my new username on Wed, 2014-11-19 16:27

I recall reading about Plangent and its use for the Dead's Winterland. My understanding at the time was that the master tapes weren't great and would suffer scrape flutter no matter what machine they were played back on. Hence, Plangent.

So either my understanding of the situation is wrong, or every Springsteen tape is in such bad shape as to "need" (or otherwise significantly benefit from) Plangent.

Don't anyone get me wrong, it sounds like an innovative process. But with this release it seems like it's either an unnecessary step, or is something each analog transfer should go through, and no all-analog LPs need happen anymore.

Which is it?

Michael Fremer's picture
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Thu, 2014-11-20 09:31
produces "scrape flutter", though to differing degrees depending upon many factors...
my new username's picture
Submitted by my new username on Thu, 2014-11-20 10:03

Either these tapes were in such bad shape that they needed the help, or Plangent's claim that ALL digitized tapes can (or should) sound better than the original is a revelation waiting to be heralded, with a few apple carts upset.

It's not that I doubt either possibility, only that these two ideas have been left up in the air and that they conflict. Probably no practical way to find out, so forget I mentioned it. :)

cundare's picture
Submitted by cundare on Wed, 2014-11-19 17:31

You have, I assume, seen "Priscilla, Queen of the Desert"?

Michael Fremer's picture
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Fri, 2014-11-28 10:37
Couldn't get through it...
marmil's picture
Submitted by marmil on Wed, 2014-11-19 19:25

Hey -
The very 1st pressings of Born to Run had a different front cover - all the words were in script, not the way we're used to seeing it. Also, you said that the review from Boston that broke Bruce there was from the Inn Square Men's Bar and written by Paul Nelson. Not so. It was the shows at the Harvard Square Theater, written by none other than Jon Landau (in either the Phoenix or the Real Paper - I'm no longer sure) that produced the famous "I've seen the future of rcok'n'roll and his name is Bruce Springsteen" line that did it for Bruce in Boston. Also, on 1 of his early tours, he stopped by our alma mater, WBCN, and played live on Maxanne's show using a very small acoustic band, including tuba. The show is widely available on bootlegs and it's great fun to listen to. Other than that, I really enjoyed the review.

Roy Edelsack's picture
Submitted by Roy Edelsack on Thu, 2014-11-20 05:29

...of rcok'n'roll."

Paging Dr. Freud!

Michael Fremer's picture
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Thu, 2014-11-20 09:35
I know I said he played a club in Inman Square but it wasn't the Inn Square Men's Bar (where I did stand up comedy BTW and have the tape!) it was another club...but I didn't say Paul reviewed it, did I? You are correct though that the breakthrough concerts were at the Harvard Square Theater. My bad. The Landau quote was in The Real Paper (I did all of their radio advertising...I should post some of the ads) and it's reproduced in the book....
marmil's picture
Submitted by marmil on Thu, 2014-11-20 09:43

Well I guess if the shoe fits...

marmil's picture
Submitted by marmil on Thu, 2014-11-20 10:07

I was wrong - the only attribution you give to a Boston review is to Ken Emerson (venue not stated), and I said that you said Inn Square Men's Bar - you said it was Joe's Place. Any time I hear? "Inman Square" I thing of ISMB. So, sorry!!

Bigrasshopper's picture
Submitted by Bigrasshopper on Thu, 2014-11-20 17:10

Micheal, I wonder if you have any information on the T. Rex vinyl collection - coming in December.
Since I always assume it's digital unless otherwise stated, I thought I'd ask, because A.S. has no description and M.D. doesn't list it. M.D. does have a Chris Bellman cut from ORM, but it's 6 - 45 singles from Electric Warrior. 3000 limit. Was that a compilation album ? There is also a Rhino Vinyl E.W. mastered at Capital. I suppose there are single 45 collectors/fans out there, I'm not one of them. If your listening it does get tedious. But then again, 45s from the tapes ? What's a fellow to do ? It makes me wonder why Chris couldn't do them on a single lacquer. Cost, or like the label doesn't want to compete with itself. Do you think these 45s are a "throwaway product" like so many 45s were. Or is this quality nostalgia ? Has anyone sampled these ?

mjohnson229's picture
Submitted by mjohnson229 on Thu, 2014-11-20 20:35

I experience nothing but warped records. It's really problematic with the 180g records. Learn how to press.

RobWynn's picture
Submitted by RobWynn on Fri, 2014-11-21 11:41

100% of the records you buy are warped, or is it of the vinyl that you have a problem with 100% of it is due to warping?

If the former then it is all pressing plants (assuming you buy titles pressed at all plants), but if the latter then which pressing plants in your opinion need to learn how to press?

I'm very curious by this, as I rarely have any warping on the records I buy new. The only case I can recall in the past 5 years (or more) is a copy of Guided By Voices "Alien Lanes".

teachscience's picture
Submitted by teachscience on Fri, 2014-11-21 19:57

It is so rare that I get a new warped LP of any weight that it isn't worth mentioning. The last LP I returned was an AP 45 rpm Lee Morgan set,and it wasn't warped just poorly pressed, and it was replaced with no argument.

mjohnson229's picture
Submitted by mjohnson229 on Sat, 2014-11-22 08:32

It's not that every record I buy is warped, but after having gone thru my new record purchase this year, which totaled 90, 11 were warped beyond salvage. Out of these 11, 10 were 180g pressings. This represents over 10% of purchases. All I'm concerned about is that either the people who work at these plants do not understand what a warped record is or they simply don't care because they figure the buying population is young and does not realize that records are supposed to lay flat.

RobWynn's picture
Submitted by RobWynn on Sat, 2014-11-22 09:15

That percentage is quite high. I too would be upset about that. I'm feeling quite lucky that my warp rate is less than 1%. A few more questions if you don't mind.

1. Do you have a sense of the pressing plants for those 11 records? Just an estimate, such as 50% RTI, 50% United.

2. What percent of your 90 records would you say are 180g vs all others? Again, just estimate. I'm curious to see if 180g has a higher proportion of warpage relative to its total vs. other weights, which you can only be calculated by knowing the universe size of each, in this case your purchase volume of each.

If you don't feel like replying I understand. It is just that by profession I'm a market researcher that works with quantitative data so to me the bigger picture like this is more meaningful than anecdotal, qualitative data.

mjohnson229's picture
Submitted by mjohnson229 on Sat, 2014-11-22 15:03

1. I'm not sure where the records are being pressed. Last week I bought the best of the Eagles and the record was warped around the entire edge. I exchanged it for the new best of David Bowie, which is a Sony record. Disk 1 was flat, disk 2 warped at one portion. Luckily, it's playable. I have records from the 70's, mostly Japanese pressings which are flat and perfect. Even cheap Pickwick records from the 70's beat many of the pressings today.
2. I would say that 50% of my new records are 180g. I have gotten to a point that when I see 180g, I associate them with bad quality.
3. I've never had any problems with Blue Note, Riverside or Prestige records. They represent 50% of my purchases. However, these are not 180g.

hockeyyo's picture
Submitted by hockeyyo on Sat, 2014-11-22 13:47

I just received my Springsteen box set and things started off well with Greetings. The disc was flat & quiet. The rest of the records were warped. I have a VPI turntable with an outside clamp and the records in this set are smaller diameter then the norm as the clamp would not sit on them properly. I preceded to listen to the entire collection in one evening. I felt that this new set offers better detail and increased dynamics compared to my original LP's though I felt they were a tad bright in some cases. Some of the records had more noise then others which was apparent during quieter songs like 'New York City Serenade' from 'The Wild...E Street Shuffle". 'Stolen Car' from 'The River on the other hand had an impressive quiet background. I would like to compare the CD's to the LP's.

evancent's picture
Submitted by evancent on Sat, 2014-11-22 15:02

Will you be reviewing this box set soon? Also the 3 new Led zep boxs?
Cant wait ,Keep up the good work . love your stuff !

garrard201's picture
Submitted by garrard201 on Sun, 2014-11-30 17:20

Your recent mentions of albums mixed to early digital (The River, Bop Til You Drop) reminded me of another: Tug of War (Paul McCartney), one of my favorites. The CD I have (Dutch?) is bright as hell, and I can't imagine an original Columbia CD (or a later Capitol one) would be much better. My LP sounds pretty good. Any idea if there's a better pressing (vinyl or CD) out there?

Michael Fremer's picture
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Fri, 2014-12-12 12:11
I have a Japanese original you don't want to hear!
Oldsport's picture
Submitted by Oldsport on Tue, 2014-12-09 10:28

Michael, I know you're a busy man, and wear many hats, but one of them is that of a music critic, and it's Christmastime. Whether or not I can afford the G.I. Joe with the Kung Fu grip, I'd like to know whether I should invest in this vinyl package. Are you going to tell us before it is too late to reach Santa before he rides, or run out the "Clock of Relevance?" Thanks.

Michael Fremer's picture
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Tue, 2014-12-09 15:33
I PROMISE!
bongo-hifi's picture
Submitted by bongo-hifi on Sat, 2014-12-13 11:38

1 buy records from a reputable source, preferably a specialist record shop with staff who listen to records and care about them, use them or lose them.
2 if your not happy with the quality of a record (pressing, warps etc take it back)
3 Be sceptical of stickers proclaiming 180g, Heavy weight vinyl, Audiophile pressing, etc. Its meaningless if pressed on a dog turd.
4 Forget lab coats white gloves and RCM's, buy more good records instead
5 Treat records with care, handle them by the edges with clean hands and don't touch the playing surface.
6 Always return the record to its sleeve after playing and use good quality poly inners and outers (I like nagoka)
7 ensure your turntable/tonearm/cartridge is correctly set up.
8 Clean stylus after every side of a record with a quality carbon fibre brush and periodic clean with Audio Technica vibrating stylus brush
9 Don't be overly concerned, hyped, by debates over which pressing or edition of a record sounds better than another. for a multitude of reasons different pressings will sound different and the outcome will largely be system dependent and subjective.

10- PLAY YOUR RECORDS REGULARLY, ENJOY MUSIC AND GET A LIFE

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