Interviews

Some artists give great lip service to being humble, spiritual messengers of their artistic muse — and then there’s Jon Anderson. The eternal voice of vintage Yes just keeps on keeping on, with his instantly recognizable alto tenor at the forefront of True, a vibrant new album credited to Jon Anderson & The Band Geeks that was released in various 2LP forms — including transparent blue, gold, and black vinyl — by Frontiers on August 23, 2024.

“Well, you know, what am I gonna do?” Anderson says with his typical self-deference. “I gotta make an album. “Yeah, I just keep going. Gotta keep going — things to create!”

The SRP for the 2LP True set is a quite reasonable $35.99, and it can be ordered here from Music Direct, and/or via the MD link graphic at the end of the interview. If MD happens to be sold out of True on vinyl, you can also order it here, via the official Frontiers label site.

The vinyl stats are these. Yes, True was digitally recorded, but its nine songs are spread across four LP sides, letting the arrangements breathe and expand without limitations. True was produced by Jon Anderson and Richie Castellano, along with associate producer Andy Ascolese, and it was mixed by Castellano, mastered by Sam Stauff at Mercy Studios, and made in the EU.

The Band Geeks — comprised of bassist and aforementioned True co-producer Richie Castellano (bass/guitar/keys/vocals), Andy Ascolese (drums/percussion/keys/vocals), Andy Graziano (guitar/vocals), Christopher Clark (keyboards), and Robert Kipp (Hammond organ/vocals), along with Anne Marie Nacchio (additional vocals) — are about as close to the edge of Yes that any band could possibly hope to be (and in all the right ways, no less), capturing pretty much all phases of the progressive group’s six-decade-plus career. Sometimes they even do it within the arrangement of the same song, whether it’s Graziano’s riffage being recollective of Steve Howe’s lightning-fast guitar runs, Castellano reaching the deepest deep end of Chris Squire’s thumping bass attack, and/or the collective meshing of the respective character of both Tony Kaye and Rick Wakeman in the keyboard fills that appear behind Anderson’s lead vocals, instrumental passages, and solo sequences — not to mention the joyful fullness of the Trevor Horn/Trevor Rabin-era of stacked vocal harmonies.

LP1, Side B of True evinces the full scope of what The Band Geeks can do, starting with all 9:50 of “Counties and Countries” (Track 1), and then how they let the tide recede for the vibe and sentiment of the acoustic-oriented “Build Me an Ocean” (Track 2), wherein the intent of Anderson’s breathy vocal has more impact by being placed upfront and center in the mix — and it all rings, well, quite true.

That said, “Once Upon a Dream” is the linchpin (LP2, Side 4, Track 1) — and, throughout the entirety of its 16 minutes and 34 seconds, this instant-classic epic symbolizes where literally everything is possible in the way it showcases all facets and uplifting movements of what you’ve always loved about Jon Anderson the artist. Not only that, but his direct verbal nod to the vintage Yes song “Heart of the Sunrise” — the elegiac last track on Side 2 of their seminal November 1971 LP on Atlantic, Fragile — gives us total mass lyrical retain. My ratings for True on vinyl are 9.5 for the Music, based on its cumulatively impeccable musicianship, vocals, and arrangements, and 8.5 for Sound — but it’s about as close to 9 as a digitally sourced recording can get.

“Never underestimate the power of the universe” goes one of the key lines to the chorus of “Shine On” (LP1, Side A, Track 2), but I think we could easily modify that lyric to say, “Never underestimate the power of Jon Anderson.” During a recent Zoom call to his homebase in California, Anderson, 79, and I discussed how True came to be, what his favorite Yes tracks on vinyl are and why, and what Yes album Rahsaan Roland Kirk once told Jon he personally admired. You be the satellite / I’ll be the signal of change. . .

Mike Mettler: Let’s get right into the heart of True. You have a 10-minute song called “Counties and Countries,” and also a 16-minute song, “Once Upon a Dream.” How does the process of determining song length come to you?
Jon Anderson: Well, you start with a basic idea. You don’t start by — you know, I was working closely with Richie [Castellano] and Andy [Ascolese], the drummer, via Zoom, and we’d start an idea. And Richie — he loves Yes. He loves Yes music. So, when I sent him “Counties and Countries” [which is on LP2, Side C, Track 1], it was just a very simple two verses and then a bridge idea. (recites lyrics) “Only for you / only for you / to be received by you” (then sings) “Your higher self.” And, about four days later, he sent me this beautiful structure with orchestra and everything — magnificent work.

Anderson: So, I was very happy to get to the next piece of music we did. Every Tuesday, we’d Zoom each other, and talk about the next steps to take. It would be like, “Don’t worry if it’s longer — if it works, it works.”

Mettler: Yeah, that’s great to hear. And now I’m referencing back to the other, longer song, “Once Upon a Dream” [LP2, Side D, Track 1], where there’s some “sunrise”-related lines. Did that just seem to be the right thing to do there, to use the phrase “heart of the sunrise” in a song like that?
Anderson: Well, the song relates to the history of my understanding of music in a way that it touches people on so many different levels, and the idea that you’ve got to reach for something.

One time, I just sang, “reach for the heart of the sunrise” — not thinking, “Oh yeah, I wrote that song years and years ago!” (laughs) [It’s on Yes’ aforementioned November 1971 LP on Atlantic, Fragile.] That’s what got us together, actually. Somebody sent me a video of The Band Geeks playing “Heart of the Sunrise,” and I kind of went (exhales), “Oh, these guys are so damn good!” I spoke with Richie and said, “Let’s go on tour.” And he said, “Is that Jon Anderson, for sure? I want to know!” (laughs) “Yeah, it is.”

Mettler: And you guys are also playing that song in your live set now, which I think is fantastic. Are you able to get that “perfect harmony,” to borrow a phrase?
Anderson: Yeah. It’s a natural event in my life that this came around only a year ago. It’s not that I was looking for anything. I just saw this video that my friend sent me and thought, “Gosh — we could do the epics and classics,” and then it was just kind of “ding, ding, ding.” So, we’ve gotten to do “Awaken,” “The Gates of Delirium,” and “Close to the Edge.” And they play them all so well. “Awaken” they play so beautifully. Being onstage with them is like heaven to me. (chuckles)

Mettler: Oh, I totally get that — and it sounds like heaven to us listeners, too. Now, we’ve talked about this before, but you once told me “Awaken” [the last song on Side 2 of Yes’ 1977 July LP on Atlantic, Going for the One] is one of the best songs you’ve written that also sounds great on vinyl. It’s the one that’s at the mountaintop. Why is “Awaken” still such an important song for you?
Anderson: Well, it was at a point in time at the end of the ’70s, for Yes to still survive. We’d survived disco, we’d survived punk, and we survived other things. We actually had — not so much a problem, but we just didn’t know if the record company related to Yes anymore. You know, we’d had “Roundabout” [Side 1, Track 1 on Fragile], and that was a great hit record, shall we say.

Mettler: When you sing such a classic song like “Roundabout” today, it must still resonate with you, as the artist. Why does that song still have that level of impact, do you think?
Anderson: Yeah, well, it’s a joyful song. It’s very, it’s like a reel — like a Scottish reel [i.e., music in either 2/4 or 4/4, related to a form of Scottish country dancing]. And even the middle section is soloing, soloing away. It’s a joyful piece of music. Most of the time, whenever I do it or have done it, I get my wife to get up and dance with me in the middle of the song! (laughs)

Mettler: Oh, that’s lovely. That’s a wonderful thing to share.
Anderson: (laughs) It is! But we’d sort of ventured away from the norm in Yes, as I would do with the guys. I would say, “Let’s do a pseudo-jazz fusion acoustic album,” or something like that. And they’d say, “No, no, Jon, let’s just do what we’re doing.” (smiles) “What do you want to do?” I’d say, “Oh, I’ve got a couple of songs here.”

We were on tour doing, I think it was a Fragile tour, around that period. I’d walked past [Yes guitarist] Steve Howe’s room in a Holiday Inn somewhere, and I heard him playing this figurative style thing with (mouths an early melody idea for “Awaken”) — and he was playing away. I had my breakfast, came back — and he’s still playing it. So I opened the door and said, “Steve! Can you change key?” (mouths melody in different key) I had a cassette [player] with me, and I recorded myself singing, (sings the uplifting “ahh-ahh-ahhs” part). So, in a way, that’s how “Awaken” started.

And then I started to realize that, with some music, you wonder how it’s created. And then you realize, well, it’s created in sections. That’s normal, and I didn’t think about it that much. Doing a long-form piece of music has to have sections. It has to have breathing space, and so on.

So, by the time, many years later, we were recording “Awaken,” [keyboardist] Rick Wakeman had rejoined the band — and, all of a sudden, the skies had opened, and everything was beautiful. It was a great feeling to finish that album [Going for the One], realizing, “Wait till people hear this! This is so beautiful.” And then I’ve been performing “Awaken” live, all the way through my career.

Anderson: And here we are now with “Once Upon a Dream,” which has got a similar energy to “Awaken.” I didn’t really jump on it right away with Richie. I just sent him something I’d done with a friend of mine. And then he extended it and found a middle section, which was very open, and I’m thinking, “Well, I don’t want to go ‘dun-dun-dun’ like ‘Awaken’ in the middle — I’ll free-form it, with some vocalizing and stuff.” And, lo and behold, it actually got to that point where I just said to Richie, “Is Christopher there?”— the keyboard player, Chris Clark. And he said, “Yeah, he’s next door.” I said, “Well, get him in. Why don’t we do a church organ solo in the middle?”

Mettler: Perfect! Hey, you had one of those on “Awaken,” so why not? And that one was recorded [by Rick Wakeman] in an actual church, as I recall.
Anderson: Yes, it was actually. That was a great story! I’d actually found that church [St. Martin’s]. It was a small village close to this recording studio in Montreux, Switzerland, where the studio [named Mountain] was. About, I don’t know, a 10-minute drive, there was a little village [named Vevey], and that’s where the church was. But not only that, there was a house overlooking the lake, a rental house, that was actually rented by [Russian composer Igor] Stravinsky when he wrote The Rite of Spring [circa 1913].

Mettler: Oh, wow. Amazing.
Anderson: You go in the room where he wrote The Rite of Spring, and there’s a special table where he sat facing the lake. And I said, “My God, Stravinsky was here!” (smiles and clasps hands together) Anyway, going back to the recording of “Once Upon a Dream” — Chris Clark was there that afternoon and I just said, “Go on — throw on a real strong church-organy sort of thing,” and he went for it. And I said, “Well, that’s great. Can you jump, after the first couple of minutes or something, can you go to a Dorian scale, or whatever that means (chuckles) — just some kind of different scale?” And he said, “Let me try this.” And he did it in one take — one take, he did the whole solo. And that just led to a beautiful section.

We finished that, and then the ending was a reoccurrence of the initial chant that was there [i.e., the “it’s enough to stick around, looking for it” sequence]. It just seemed to pull itself together, you know?

Mettler: It’s really something else, I have to tell you. And it’s interesting you mentioned doing things in sections, which got me thinking about something else from earlier in your solo career — the [12-minute] track “The Friends of Mr. Cairo,” which is somewhat similar to that idea because you have a number of sections in that piece too, and I’d love to hear The Band Geeks play it. I’d love to hear you guys actually work that one up, if you could. [The Friends of Mr. Cairo LP, a collaboration credited to Jon and Vangelis, was released in May 1981 on Polydor.]
Anderson: I’ll get on the phone. (laughs) Well, you never know. You never know.

Mettler: That’s still a special track to me — and I’m sure it is to you too — because it refers to a lot of period film noir, we’ll say, and other things that, and you guys captured it, literally, like an aural soundtrack to me, since it comes across like I was watching a movie.
Anderson: True! Yeah, because it actually says it in the middle — it explains who paid for the movies to be made about gangsters. Well, the gangsters did, you know? (laughs heartily) Ok, well, I’ll put in a few phone calls about that one! Anything to promote my life. (smiles)

Mettler: Well, you do it so well. [MM adds: The videoclip above is the 4-minute version of “Cairo,” shown here mainly because many of its visuals pay direct homage to the some of the vintage gangster movies Anderson referenced.] So, relative to that idea, how are you and The Band Geeks able to choose among a six-decade catalog to get the “right” songs in your set?
Anderson: It wasn’t hard for me to know that I would love to sing “Yours Is No Disgrace.” I would love to sing “Heart of the Sunrise,” and I’d love to sing “And You And I” — and then you just go through them. And then you go, “Oh, I’ve got to do ‘Awaken,’ and I’ve got to do ‘Close to the Edge’ too.” It was the ’70s. It was that period of time where, like I can see behind you in your studio, those were the albums that were made — and we survived. It’s not like we became individual rock stars. The idea of Yes became, itself, an emblem of, what’s the word? (slight pause, then smiles) Progressive. Prog rock. (smiles again)

Mettler: Sure, if we have to use that word, then absolutely! But I actually look at Yes as being modern classical music because the arrangements are so involved and so detailed, and when you listen to all the albums you’ve done over the years, you learn so much about the history of music. There are so many touchstones of different styles. Like when you guys start your shows with “The Firebird Suite” — a lot of people may not necessarily know Stravinsky, but they may think about it like, “Oh, Yes did this in the ’70, and Jon also plays it before his solo shows. Who is this amazing composer?” And then you find all this great music as a result. And isn’t that really part of what you do as an artist?
Anderson: That’s true — so true! Yeah, well, you learn. You learn. When I was probably eight- or nine-years-old, I’d listen to Radio 1 and Radio 2. That’s all there was — two channels. Radio 2 was orchestral music — or, maybe around that time, it was the music of the ’40s and the ’50s. And that made me think, “Wow, how did they do this? How did they make this kind of music?”

Mettler: Yeah, that’s like my own mindset of listening to almost anything, because I’m always trying to figure out things like, “How do these sounds come to pass?” I’m pointing all this out as a nice reminder of where everything comes from, because we can fast-forward from four or five centuries ago to what you are doing now. And we can also say that, as an evolutionary artist, you were able to put all those listening experiences together to help create a No. 1 single in the 1980s — “Owner of a Lonely Heart,” a song that is also in your set. [“Owner of a Lonely Heart,” the lead single from Yes’ November 1983 album on Atco, 90125, reached No. 1 on the Billboard Hot 100 singles chart, staying there for two weeks in January 1984. It was their only song to ever hit No. 1.]
Anderson: (laughs) Out of the blue, there it was! [Original Yes bassist] Chris Squire, he played it to me in his car. I was just in London for a break from my work in the south of France. He said, “Do you want to listen to this?” I said, “Yeah, Chris, how are you? Everything been all right?” And then he played me “Owner of a Lonely Heart.” I went, “What the hell? This is pretty cool!” And then he played another one, and another one — “Leave It,” and things like that. I said, “My gosh, this is a great album!” I said, “You just need the verses of ‘Owner’ to be a little bit more (sings his melody idea), rather than like that.” (smiles)

Mettler: Your arrangement skills in the moment are something else, because you’re able to literally hear where a piece can go. I kind of liken it to, albeit in a different way, how Graham Nash was always like that with the harmonies those guys in Crosby, Stills & Nash created together. He knew where to come in, into a place that didn’t exist yet, but one he was able to figure out in the moment — and that’s what you seem to be doing. Whenever you hear music, you’re like, “I know where I can go. This section needs to expand.” And then it changes. That’s an arrangement skill. You are an arranger — a mighty arranger. (chuckles)
Anderson: Oh, thank you! I knew I was something! (both laugh)

Mettler: Yeah, there you go — something finally worked out for you. (more laughter) So there’s that, and also the fact that you and [guitarist/vocalist/composer] Trevor Rabin didn’t really know each other before that, and yet you became great collaborators — even through to the more recent years when you, Trevor, and Rick Wakeman came together for the ARW project [a.k.a. Anderson, Rabin, and Wakeman; a.k.a. Yes Featuring Jon Anderson, Trevor Rabin, Rick Wakeman, an active touring/recording unit from 2010-18]. I talked with Trevor late last year, and he had many great things to say about working with you. You guys just connect in a very interesting way, I think. [You can read my October 6, 2023, interview with Rabin here.]
Anderson: Yeah. Well, when we did Talk [Yes’ March 1994 album on Victory Music] together, I stayed at his house, and he had a big dog. He had a gigantic dog there that would always growl at me. Oh, boy. So, I had to sneak myself away to get in the studio.

Mettler: Such dedication! There’s a nice multidisc reissue of Talk that came out earlier this year [as separate 4CD and 2LP sets via Spirit of Unicorn, although my copy of the 2LP vinyl edition is still on backorder!], and it’s always great that people can rediscover your work like that, right? You’re a “true messenger,” to borrow a title. And I’m glad that song is in the live set, because it already feels timelessly classic. You’re able to just make that fit exactly who you are.
Anderson: Excellent. Yeah, it was a song I wrote with a really wonderful guy called Jamie Dunlap, who actually writes a lot of music for South Park. Over the last five years, I’ve written a dozen songs with him. Eventually they will be heard — all of them! (chuckles)

Mettler: That’s good to know. I think possibly one of my favorite lines on True is in “Shine On” where you sing, “never underestimate the power of the universe.” What a great line, and what a great sentient sentiment that is too.
Anderson: (exclaims) Yes! That came like — I wanted to sing about love. You know, universal love. Come on. Don’t we know? Don’t we remember? It’s the universe.

Mettler: Oh, I remember. You always seem to have a positive message to share, all the time. Like, no matter what’s going on, that is your vibe. Everything I hear from you is always a positive thing. Do you feel like that was instilled in you as a kid as just, “This is who I am”?
Anderson: Do you know, I have no idea where it comes from, because I had a very hardworking childhood. I worked on the local farm with my brother. And then I said, “I don’t want to do this all of my life,” and I went on the road with my band at that time, The Warriors. Life was crazy, wonderful — and then The Beatles happened. All these things happened around me, and they made me feel very, very comfortable about life — crazy a life at times, but very connected.

I’m trying to remember when I first realized that the light is within, and stuff like that. I think it was [The Beatles’ July 1967 non-album single] “All You Need Is Love.” It was Ramakrishna — the whole idea of Ramakrishna. And I like that. I like that, very much.

Mettler: You must have crossed paths with The Beatles at some point. Did you ever get to have a deep conversation with, say, George Harrison about anything of a spiritual nature?
Anderson: I shook his hand once — and I was so scared! (makes voice quaver slightly) “Hello. Hello, George!” (chuckles) And Paul McCartney, he came to a show we did in London. He came down the stairs at the back of the stage, and it was Paul McCartney. (continues laughing) I couldn’t even grasp what to say! I would never know what to say. Same with Ringo [Starr]. I met him too — and you don’t know what to say to these guys, because they are your musical gods, you know? (smiles)

Mettler: That’s true. Well, I’m sure that, in reverse, people may approach you in a similar way. Do you get that same kind of reaction from other people?
Anderson: Oh, no, no. I’m just happy to meet anybody. I’ll meet people. “Hi, how are you? Gosh — wait till the next song. Wait till the next album!”

Mettler: Well, based on what I’ve heard here on True, I expect more great albums from you going forward. No pressure, Jon. (laughs)
Anderson: Well, the last thing I’ve been working on is being surrounded by birds singing all the time, and the wind. It’s like a nature sound — the ocean, birds, wind. You feel like you’re in the world of sound — because that’s what we are. I walk around our garden, and I’m hearing birds singing here, there, and everywhere. There’s something about nature that is a musical event already — the wind, the leaves, and everything.

And I remember who taught me that was [avant-jazz multi-instrumentalist] Rahsaan Roland Kirk, one of the greatest of all time. I was backstage at Carnegie Hall [in New York City]. He was there, setting up to do a show, and I was there to meet with İlhan Mimaroğlu, who was one of the great electronic composers from Turkey, and a friend of Ahmet Ertegun [co-founder and president of Atlantic Records]. He was there to record Rahsaan Roland Kirk with numerous other musicians.

And to see Rahsaan Roland Kirk — just to see him — blew my mind. He was standing there, and I just shook his hand and said, “Thank you for teaching me about the sound of the world, and the birds, and the wind.” And he said, “Okay, Jon, nice to meet you. Hey, Topographic Oceans!” He just said that! I can’t believe he just said that. Oh my God. Whewww! [Kirk was referring to, of course, Yes’ truly mind-expanding, four-songs-on-four-sides December 1973 2LP master-epic on Atlantic, Tales From Topographic Oceans.]

Mettler: Isn’t that amazing? The one album of yours that he would choose to reference to you directly — I mean, talk about a piece of work that puts you into a wide world of sound! Promise me you’ll keep doing that with whatever you do next, Jon.
Anderson: Yes. Yes, I will.

JON ANDERSON & THE BAND GEEKS
TRUE
2LP (Frontiers)

LP1, Side A
1. True Messenger
2. Shine On

LP1, Side B
1. Counties And Countries
2. Build Me An Ocean

LP2, Side C
1. Still A Friend
2. Make It Right
3. Realization Part Two

LP2, Side D
1. Once Upon A Dream
2. Thank God