Of course this is precisely the point I have been making for years: for whatever reason or reasons, digital does not connect with the emotions. Therefore over time, you lose your connection to music. Howard chalked it up to age, but he was mistaken.
So after his admission it was time for Howard to take apart Gary Dell'Abbate, Jon Hein, their television show and me. It didn't help that the song Gary and Jon chose to demonstrate vinyl vs. CD was The Thompson Twins' "In the Name of Love."
That gave Howard an unbeatable launching point from which to fire his salvos dumping on the music, on vinyl on caring about sound, etc. Howard couldn't imagine why anyone cared, how I possibly could make a living etc.
All of that was fine until he accused us all of being LIARS for claiming to hear differences. That was going too far.
Then he asked Gary if he churned his own butter, the point being why go to the bother?
This from a guy who loves good food, talks up Nobu, etc. Hey, I make my own pasta too. And you can bet Howard Stern doesn't eat microwaved fish sticks instead of going to the "bother" of starting a charcoal fire to grill some fresh (and easily spoilable) fish. Hey Howard! I also make my own pasta. It tastes better!
They pulled a segment from the show where I talk about hearing Roxy Music's Avalon at an AES (no one knew what that was) and said that digital preserves music the way formaldehyde preserves frogs: you kill it then it lasts forever.... but Howard was too incensed to get the joke....
He kept stopping the clip and attacking. You have to have a strong stomach to take the assault but I had no problem with it, mostly because when people feel threatened that's what they do! Plus it was funny. And after saying he didn't listen much to music anymore, maybe in his subconscious something was clicking!
They even sent Richard Christy and Sal out to interview homeless people about CD vs. vinyl and the homeless of course sided with Howard. It was pretty funny.
Even funnier is that I was a phone in guest on the Stern show back in June of 2001 there to talk about the upcoming introduction of HDTV and what did Howard do? He shat all over me saying "Who needs HDTV? What we have now is good enough." I made the Nobu point: "So Howard, why go to Nobu when you can eat frozen fish sticks?" I also brought up the vinyl resurgence then. If you think what I was subjected to now was bad you should have heard the reaction then!
You know what they say: "Say whatever you want as long as you say something." And if that's true, today was a good day for vinyl on The Howard Stern Show and a good day for me even though they didn't mention my name or especially Analogplanet.com.
I'm still smiling...
COMMENTS
Michael,
Does anybody even listen to Howard any more? That is what needs to be said to Howard when he dishes music. His move to XM radio has been a diaster for him. No one even knows who he is anymore. It their a (dare I say) a digital copy of the segment that we could listen too? Could you post it if it exists. Thanks for pushing the art of listening to music to the few that listen to him. 
Howard still has millions of faithful listeners—myself included. I don't think his move to satellite has been a "disaster." Between his show audience and now "America's Got Talent," I think he's bigger than ever. And I also think the show it better than ever.
I don't let what happened today affect my feelings toward him or the show, though I wish I'd been identified.
I will call in tomorrow morning and try to get on the air to state my case with as much humor as I can muster....
Stern has made over $300 million from his move to Sirius. Sounds like a disaster to me!
How sad that someone like Howard Stern admits to not listening to music anymore though if I had to listen to crappy digital I'd probably lose interest as well.
Loved seeing the movement of that turntable platform in the video, looks like a serious bit of kit!
Nah! I still love him.... I just became his latest road kill but I'm okay...
I was listening that day Mike and you were simply collateral damage. He's been all over Gary and John about their show and it just so happened the first two episodes featured segments on vinyl's resurrgence. He laid into Jack White the week before for his Third Man Records after praising him at the Grammys a few weeks before that.
You were the unintended target of his rant (plug) for Gary & John's show. I'm glad you didn't take it to heart. Howard's better now than he's ever been, maybe the best interviewer alive actually. And I'm SURE his stereo setups at home are pretty sweet.
Bill
I found a record shop that I fell in love with when I was 13, and worked there for a time. Music was my life. As the years progressed I bought an iPod and really did not listen to much new music, nor felt that emotional rush that I felt as a young man. About 5 years ago I bought a new turntable so that I could listen to the stack of vinyl I had for 20+ years, and the emotional impact I felt blew me away. I hadn't enjoyed music for the last ten years and had forgotten how good it can be. Listening to vinyl got me back to my happy place and it has made me expand my musiclal horizons in ways I could never have with cd or mp3.
Some people are happy with digital, and some people are happy with Budweiser, Sutter Home, and instant coffee. For me, I like to enjoy things, and vinyl is still king.
Michael,
As soon as I read what you wrote in Stern nolonger even listening to music had me to basically disregard anything he'd say on the subject. He has his opinon and is noted for sharing any opinions he has to his audience, but an illinformed or uninformed opinion is basically worthless.
Good job in not taking it personally. There is a legion of music lovers and of course listeners who do much or all of their listening of recorded music via analogue who stand behind the ideology you have supported and support today so well.
I've been reading Analog Planet for a couple of months, so I'm a newbie. Take this into consideration when you read my opinion.
I can't afford to have audiophile equipment. The only thing I have is a Denon DM38 and a Sony PS LX300 turntable (I want to get another one, but it's a present and my wife was very upset when I admitted I was considering it). I really can only imagine the nuances, the subtleties you listen to when you sit down and enjoy your great equipment.
Nevertheless, even with my crappy turntable, I get differences between my vinyls and my CDs. I know my record player is worse than my CD player, but still, I feel I get a superior experience with vinyl. Not all the vinyls I've been buying recently, though.
Is it possible that what I think is a superior experience is something out of the reach of my equipment, and I'm only fooling myself? Can my crappy turntable really allow me to notice the better sound in a vinyl?
Thank you all.
Hey welcome to the vinyl world ishmaelk.
You can land a good turntable for not too much money. As Michael has said new good quality models start around $300-$400 that will impress you very much. If you shop well and study online a good used turnable from the 70's & 80's can get you going well too. Made In Japan tables back then came from junkie models to very good ones and all in between. A careful shopper can land a decent vintage turntable as such from oh $100+.
You must be careful to make sure the cartridge is set up properly and is in good condition though. Take your time setting one up one here and it will pay off in enjoyment.
Oh and just a funny on my part as you said you being anewbie, I get a polite chuckle out of young turntable listeners calling the LP's as 'vinyls' 
. Me being a product of an era when the Vinyl Record still ruled (teenager in the early/mid 80's), the terminology is typically "vinyl LP's" or more normal just "LP's", "LP records". "45's" were the 45rpm singles not the hand gun LOL.
Stay in touch with vinyl records and you will live with them for likely the rest of your life. Get an album that your wife really likes on vinyl and spin it for her and she may very well not be upset that you want to try out a better turntable.
Vinyl LP's are really stess reducing when one just sits and listens. They invite you to just shut up and listen to music that you like. Not bad in an era wher all too many people have the proverbial ants in your pants syndrome.
Hi Time Stand Still.
I also started listening to lps in the mid 80s, as my father owned a decent hifi equipment which, I'm embarrassed to admit, he got rid of without me opposing. So when I say I'm a newbie I really mean not to the vinyl world, but to the one where it really does matter the difference between the Younger Than Yesterday version by Sundazed and the one by Music On Vinyl.
I actually can afford a much better turntable. The problem is my wife rescued me for the vinyl world with what she thought was an OK turntable. So I feel I owe her for that. I had moved a few times and lost in the process a nice turntable, an old 80s Pioneer PL... something. I can't remember the model. It was a very decent model, and have fond memories of all the time I spent listening to it.
It broke and I forgot about it for a few years. Having to travel a lot, I couldn't care less.
All that moving around, travelling, ended. And when I moved in with my soon to be wife, she tried to reconcile me with my stack of records. I went back to listening to my couple hundred lps (did I get it right? ) with my new turntable, and then I realized how much I had missed listening to them.
I'll eventually replace the turntable with a good one. Not a 3000$ one, but something in the range of a Rega RP1 or something like that.
But my question still stands: is it possible to notice a better sonic experience even with a turntable like mine?
You can keep the gift from your wife and say throw a mono cartridge on it so you can expand into playng mono LP's with better sound from a mono carrdge. The new turntable can become your new stereo LP turntable. Of course you wil probably have to buy another phono preamp as you would be running two tables.
Conversely and with no disrespect to your wife, you can resell the table you have now and any monies you get you can put towards another turntable. You are still respecting her gift to you but just moving on and up.
I realise many people think in life gifts need to be kept but in reality gifts are disppsed of often in life. I'd bet your wife has probably received some clothing as gift that she later resold or dropped off at a thrift store when she lost interest in it as a fashion item.
Meh just my two cents.
As per sonic differences, it's hard to say until you try to compare for yourself.
I just upgraded, but until now, was using an old cheapo Denon plastic turntable from the late 80s with one of those "p-mount" cartridges, albeit a grado one. The only mod I made back in the day was to get a pair of sorbothane feet for it. I totally agree with malosuerte that the thing to get first is some good tools to clean your vinyl. My wife got me a basic VPI cleaning machine last year for my birthday, and it has been nirvana ever since... Even my old LPs, which were bought new and which I have been meticulous about, sound like a veil has been lifted. And the used stuff I have been buying? Well, night and day my friend...night and day. So, in answer to your original question, I think that yes, you can hear a difference, even on a crappy old $150 Denon with a $60 cart, IF the vinyl is clean....
>> But my question still stands: is it possible to notice a better sonic experience even with a turntable like mine?
You'll get a taste of the experience; "better" will hinge on what it is that you (personally) value. You may very well enjoy the ease and flow of analog to the point of wanting to upgrade the equipment and reaping the sonic rewards that come with it, or not. Good luck.
Yes. Provided you use a decent cartridge properly set up...
I Love Analogplanet readers! Thanks for posting that! We're a team..
Even if you get an older inexpensive Thorens (probably about $200) and throw on a $100 cart you should hear a difference. I helped a buddy of mine set one up and he runs it through an Onkyo Home Theater amp (will all equalization turned off) and it sounds very good. No, it doesn't sound like a nice tube setup but it costs a whole lot less.
If I were you I would invest in a cleaning system as that will enhance the experience measurably. At the very least get that spin wash to clean up your older vinyl and a nitty gritty to vacum it. Yes, you will be at the low end of the scale but each improvement afterwards will be very rewarding.
I am in the same boat as you in the sense that I do not have the money to afford an awesome system at this point in my life. That being said my clean records sound great on my Thorens and Denon cart.
Whatever happened to that one?
Greg
I sold it to my friend Paul, who spins it happily daily... I have owed him a visit (he lives in the Bronx) for way too long...but I'm sooo busy....
I think if you consider Howard the average person, since he doesnt really listen to music, he is right. People dont give a crap. They are listening to mp3s and going about their day. It woould be silly to ask the average person who has nothing invested, whether they hear a difference or not.
Im a digital guy, I just dont have the time or space to be spinning vinyl. Though my friends have turntables, and the music does sound musical :), I dont have the patience. Give me my HD and access to 5000 albums and Im good. A great Dac is a must though!
Howard is funny. He makes me laugh everyday. Its like vinyl vs digital (for Vinylites) Do I like to fake laugh or have one of those real hearty laughs. Ill take the real one, thanks.
I think if you consider Howard the average person, since he doesnt really listen to music, he is right. People dont give a crap. They are listening to mp3s and going about their day. It woould be silly to ask the average person who has nothing invested, whether they hear a difference or not.
Im a digital guy, I just dont have the time or space to be spinning vinyl. Though my friends have turntables, and the music does sound musical :), I dont have the patience. Give me my HD and access to 5000 albums and Im good. A great Dac is a must though!
Howard is funny. He makes me laugh everyday. Its like vinyl vs digital (for Vinylites) Do I like to fake laugh or have one of those real hearty laughs. Ill take the real one, thanks.
Ill let everyone here have a shot at finishing my post title. I honestly almost forgot the dope still had a radio show......No kidding. I thought he just bought the company. I just think that by now his act is about as fresh as a Foghat concert (if I may borrow a movie line) I cannot wait until Howard The Duck fades into obscurity. My personal thoughts, but if you like him, I respect that, but it sure is a shame he couldn't show you any.
Hey! Who takes Howard Stern seriously? I don't think I know anyone who watch him or remember heard any of my friends mentioned his name lately.
Well, as mentioned before that he is no longer listen to music, that already discredited him to give any meaningful opinion.
Also, i think his audience demographic is differnet then here on AP. I don't think most of his audience would care about vinyl anyway. Honestly I don't think I can talk to anyone who follow Stern reliougsly for long.... differnt mindset.
But I since you've got the word out maybe a few of them will at least think about it.
Hey, have you ever heard Howard try to sing? He's absolutely tone deaf. And you expect him to be able to tell the difference between digital and analog? This guy has gotten too rich, to bored, and too boring. At 55 years of age or something close to it, he's still talking dirty, interviewing social misfits, verbally beating up his poor interns, and pandering to his under 27 year old audience. Yeah, I still listen to him occasionally but after 10 minutes it's time to change the station.
I wouldn' take anything he says too seriously, with him it is mostly an act. For heaven's sake he used to take shots at his own wife on the air.
Nick
This is Stern's act. He's kicks you in the shorts in exchange for the exposure. I think it's appropriate that he's talking about vinyl because the industry is trumpueting it's virtues again on a regular basis. It's a badge of honor to get to this place. Next stop should be the Daily Show. :)
resides in his pants. I am a bit surprised you are a fan Mikey. Many years ago he was carried in syndication on a local radio station. Back then, he seemed to have very strange musical tastes-hovering towards early Van Halen, AC-DC, and James Taylor. When he would talk about what he loved about this music, it seemed very superficial, just like his love for Nobu sushi and anything that stimulates the nerve center at the end of his schmeckel! Real music lovers get beyond the superficial, even if they never get beyond Bose or MP3.
Michael,
It's good to see you being a catalyst for the discussion of the merits of vinyl and extending the discussion to a broader audience through both Gary's and Howard’s shows. I'm also glad to see that you 'get it' and don't take it personally. I don't think he was bashing you specifically, as usual he was crapping on Gary and whatever his latest project is, you were just collateral damage. As you know he has to talk spontaneously for four hours a day and this gave him something to rave about. A couple of weeks ago he was slamming Jack White about the vinyl thing tool
More importantly I think you were spot on regarding the importance of his comment that he doesn't really listen to music any more. Neil Young makes this point strongly when discussing his Pono music format in his book (which is great by the way). Kids today have music as background, they don't have the emotional connection with the music we did when we were young, because with MP3s they can get as little as 5% of the music. I see it with my kids, they always have the headphones in while doing something, but don’t feel the music. They never just sit and listen to music like I did with my friends (for hours). Recently when my son and friends were bored my wife said why don't you listen to some music, they looked puzzled and said what do you mean, we need something to do.
Neil who has always been a vinyl champion and critical of CD and MP3 formats is now excited about bringing back "studio quality sound" (192 kHz / 24 bit) to the masses in a modern format that is digital, portable, and downloadable.
I look at CDs and MP3's vs vinyl like early digital photography or low def TV where the signal is a mosaic of three colors and you could see the pixels compared to a real 'analog' photo on film, no contest. However now high-resolution digital cameras are indistinguishable from their analog counterparts to the human eyes and have won because of the flexibility and convenience of their format. I think the same will happen with music. High quality digital music (192 kHz/24) can be indistinguishable from analog to the human ears and if presented in the right format can save this generation from dead music.
Thanks for such a thoughtful comment...
... being a good sport (shrugging off a professional hater's remarks) and role playing (going back for more by trying to call in to "defend or explain" yourself, i.e. the Eternally Unattainable Goal regarding guys like Stern).
I find the latter desire odd, but you said you wanted to be identified on the show and presumably you'll get your wish. So there's that I guess.
When that time could be better spent listening to music, preferably on vinyl.
...That made tasteless jokes about Selena after her murder? ...Called Lars Ulrich "a GREAT drummer"?
Getting crapped on by Howard is almost a badge of honor. It's like Bill O'Reilly and a guest (even a 16 year old) that bests him in an argument or catches him out of his comfort/knowledge base/laziness. Shout louder, cut off a mic, make jokes and ignore further converasation. That isn't the same as a debate. much like the old anonymous newsgroup and forum flame wars...committing an ad hominem attack isn't the same as winning an argument.
Howard has been in broadcasting too long to be that dense about formats. He is apathetic to the topic, therefore he knocks it down. It's what shock jocks do.
I experiance music from a 1979 direct drive table and a $140 cart that put me deeper into the music than any $20K digital front end. I intend to upgrade this year to a better table, but I already have enough of a platform to prove that vinyl music > digital. I can demonstrate to virtually ANYONE (audiophile or not) the EASILY discernable difference between the cd and vinyl version of any one of thousands of songs---provided the recording was good to begin with.
Feeling down about getting bashed by Howard is like feeling bad because you went to a brothel and don't "feel loved".
Actually as I remember it his comment was really not tasteless but taken well out of context as was his comments about the very heavy female actress Gaby what's her name who won an Academy Award.... Howard is often brutally honest, which I appreciate and sometimes just plain ignorant as he was regarding vinyl...
Funny (no pitiful), that Howard has lost appreciation (and the pleasure derived) from the very thing that originally got him where he is today, playing music, not to mention his schtick. On top of that, with his coin, he could have any kit under the stars. Mikey, if you still truly love Howard as you say, it's time for those who care to assemble an intervention for the lost soul, don't you think?! It might not be too late. Like we always say, if no one has heard the difference, they don't know what they are missing... sounds to these ears as though he needs a (audio) friend.
Happy Listening!
 |
Equipment Reviews | |
The Gruvy Awards | |
Blogs Analog Tips | Columns Music | |
Show Reports | |
News Resources |
© 2024 AnalogPlanet
