What about the Analouge Productions versions of both these records?
Are the MM versions of these better overall then the AP versions?
So many choices, if you had to purchase just 1 version of both records, what would they be?
Cheers
Music Matters' Somethin' Else Is Somethin' Else!
While this much-loved Blue Note lists Adderley as the group leader, this pick-up session—recorded in 1958, just before Kind of Blue—sounds, for the most part, as if Miles Davis is in control and was labeled as an Adderley session due to contractual issues.
With Hank Jones on piano and the rhythm section of Sam Jones and Art Blakey, whoever is in charge leads the group through a set of three standards ("Autumn Leaves," "Love For Sale," and "Dancing in the Dark") and two originals (Nat Adderley's funky "One For Daddy-O" and Davis' own "Somethin' Else").
As an introduction to jazz, Somethin' Else can't be beat. With the group reinventing three well-known, tuneful classics, neophytes can come to grips with improvisations on a familiar theme, on group interplay, and on the basics of what jazz is—or at least was in 1958. Of course, this easy-to-digest set holds pleasures for experienced jazz enthusiasts as well.
The opener, "Autumn Leaves," is stretched out and taken at a languid pace, allowing for some juicy solos from both Davis and Adderley, the latter of whom was but 30 at the time and had joined up with Davis only the year before. After a brooding piano intro by Jones tethered to the rhythm section's vamp, and an opening flourish by a raucous plunger mute, Davis's statement of the melody is characteristically spare and stately, and uncharacteristically tethered to the melody line. When he hands it off to Cannonball, the Charlie Parker-schooled alto saxophonist sets off sparks. There's a nice piano interlude, then Davis restates the melody. The track ends as it had begun, with Jones' slinky piano lines playing around the melody while the rhythm section restates the opening theme.
No point in doing a detailed play-by-play of all five tracks: Leonard Feather does that on the liner notes (typical of the times) complete with chords. Just listen for Miles' playful "Is that what you wanted Alfred?" (referring to the uncredited producer, Alfred Lion) at the end of "One for Daddy-O." I heard the album for the first time on headphones back in 1964 and I almost had a heart attack—I thought someone had broken into my apartment and at the time I was unfamiliar with Davis’ rasp.
This is neither a milestone recording nor an essential for every jazz collection, but it is among the most easy-to-love jazz albums. I've been playing it for 50 years and I still enjoy a deep listen, so it was certainly money well spent ($5.98 at Masters Dept. store, Lake Success, NY).
Classic Records reissued this on both 180g and later 200g pressings, in both mono and stereo, switching in the process from the less desirable jacket printing process to the more attractive Stoughton Press “Tip-On”™ paper on cardboard style.
The Classic jacket was authentic to the original in that Blue Note did not originally produce a separate jacket for the stereo release. The jacket back had Blue Note 1595, the original mono catalog number. A gold “stereo” label was stuck on the jacket front for that original issue as my original has it. In addition, on its 200g reissue the label had the “deep groove” as on the original.
When I reviewed the Classic Reissues I wrote:
I compared the stereo to my original Blue Note and to a number of reissues that have come out over the years: one on Blue Note/Liberty but with the RVG mastering stamp on it, one on a solid-blue label non-RVG, a Capitol-mastered reissue of a few years ago, and Classic's recent 180-gram reissue. I also compared the mono version to a Japanese Toshiba-EMI from a decade or so ago.
Look: while some have been critical of some of Classic's classical reissues, Bernie Grundman is a jazz fanatic who acquired his cutting chops doing jazz titles. I think these 200-gram Quiex SV-P reissues sound superb by any standard. They are not bright or edgy, nor are they rolled-off and warm sounding--and nor is my original, though it's been played probably 100 or more times. I think that with these latest Blue Note jazz titles, Classic and Grundman have gotten to the essence of what's on the tapes and what Rudy Van Gelder intended them to sound like. The original is a bit "bigger" sounding and somewhat airier, but the differences are neither epic nor critical.
So here comes yet another reissue of this album, this time from Music Matters in a gatefold “Tip-On” laminated jacket with superbly reproduced original black and white session photos on the inside panels, cut by Kevin Gray on his upgraded mastering system.
The “deep groove” label is gone but I have to retract what I said about the sound on the Classic reissues. They are bright on top, very similar to the sonic signature of the Classic Records Led Zeppelin reissues. If you downloaded those snippets published here you know what I mean.
I have no idea how that ends up sounding on your system, but here on mine, the Classic now sounds bright and somewhat hard on top and this new reissue sounds just right and far closer to the original pressing’s overall tonality. Considering that one was mastered more than 50 years ago and one was mastered within the past year or so, that tape is in insanely good condition given its age. This new Music Matters reissue sounds wonderfully “Blue-Note-y” in every way.
Interestingly, the UMe $20 edition of Somethin’ Else is the mono mix, mastered from the 192/24 Alan Yoshida mastered file cut to lacquer by Chris Bellman and pressed at United. It’s pretty good overall, losing some transparency and adding some opacity and a less than fully extended top end but if you also want the mono document, this version for $20 can’t be beat and the United pressing is quite good physically and sonically (there, I wrote it).
So if you have the Classic reissue, unless you are a Something’ Else fanatic, I’m not saying you should replace it with this new one.
However, even if you have an original copy of Herbie Hancock’s 1965 ocean going epic Maiden Voyage, I strongly recommend you buy the new Music Matters reissue. If you don’t have any version, than this one should be on your “must buy” list for while Somethin’ Else is an fine but non-essential record, Maiden Voyage is a “must have” classic (I have a TP and haven’t seen the jacket so I don’t know what photos are included).
So why should owners of the original or other reissues buy this version? Because it’s the best sounding one I’ve heard. Admittedly I’ve not heard an original, but I’ve heard many later pressings and most of the reissues and I’ve never heard this record sound particularly good. It’s always been “dull and distantsville” or dare I say ”underwater”?
This new Music Matters reissue is the best sounding Maiden Voyage I’ve ever heard, elevating it from a major Blue Note sonic disappointment to a really great sounding BN. How is that possible? According to Music Matters’ Joe Harley and Ron Rambach, the original tape has long been lost in the vault due to its having been mislabeled. This reissue cut from the original tape sounds takes the album from one that sounds underwater to one that will float your Blue Note boat! Both of these reissues are highly recommended but if you are choosing one, get the Maiden Voyage
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COMMENTS
Great review but,
Submitted by cooker on Fri, 2015-01-23 17:32
AP Vs. MM?
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Fri, 2015-01-23 17:59
Interestingly, both were mastered by Kevin Gray. The APs at AcousTech, which was located within the RTI record pressing plant and the MMs at Kevin Gray's new facility, which contains most of the same mastering gear but with all-new electronics plus the room has been completely re-wired with AudioQuest's best cable (Music Matters principal Joe Harley works for AQ). Before the re-wiring, Kevin Gray could best be described as a "cable-denier". After the update he became an instant believer. Then the electronics were swapped out.
I've compared only a few AP double 45s with the new MM 33 1/3s, and the MMs of those few sounded far superior to the 45s. That's how progress works. The MM packaging is also far superior. The AP 45s were before AP "got religion" and started turning out beautifully packaged records.
Maiden Voyage - source unclear
Submitted by RubenH on Fri, 2015-01-23 20:03
Michael,
You write "According to Music Matters’ Joe Harley and Ron Rambach, the original tape has long been lost in the vault due to its having been mislabeled. This reissue cut from the original tape sounds takes the album from one that sounds underwater to one that will float your Blue Note boat!"
Are you saying that the original tape HAD previously been lost but this new MM version is now using the (newly-found) original tape? If you could clarify, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!
Clarification?
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Sat, 2015-01-24 09:35
My understanding is that the original tape had (yes) previously been lost but not sure when. Certainly by the time of every reissue I've heard (which is all that I've heard) had been pressed. I've never heard an original...but a comparison would be interesting. I'm going to check with Joe and Ron for clarification.
From Elusive Disc:
Submitted by RubenH on Wed, 2015-02-04 19:45
Remastered from the Original Rudy Van Gelder Blue Note Master Tapes!
I'm not one to parse words, so I'll take the above statement at face value.
You call this a review?
Submitted by iyke on Sat, 2015-01-24 10:43
Mikey,
All due respect; this is hardly a record review.
Something' Else is a non essential record? You spent the first half of your write-up pointing out all the reasons why it is essential. The sound is rating from you is a 9? You're in the exception on that and not the consensus. Something' Else sounds like a million bucks on my Stereophile Class C system. Even 99.9% of those audio nuts on Hoffman say it is truly "somethin' Else."
I've seen you give far more better sound rating to some half-way decent effort from Mofi and Analogue Productions.
Were you intending to write a separate review of Maiden Voyage or was that one paragraph in the middle of this piece truly it. You say it is the best sounding version you've ever heard and yet a seasoned reviewer such as yourself can't find more than a paragraph to say about it.
BTW, Mikey, the info I have is that MM's Maiden Voyage 33rpm was cut from safety made directly from the original master before it was damaged, and it (the safety) had not been used before since RVG or whoever made it.
One of us is incorrect on this one.
Bak to the issue of "essential vs non essential"
quote:
"As an introduction to jazz, Somethin' Else can't be beat. With the group reinventing three well-known, tuneful classics, neophytes can come to grips with improvisations on a familiar theme, on group interplay, and on the basics of what jazz is--or at least was, in 1958. Of course, this easy-to-digest set holds pleasures for experienced jazz enthusiasts as well."
This is what you had to say on previous review of the same album. Surely, any album that does what you say above is an essential, would you not agree?
Well.....
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Sat, 2015-01-24 20:46
Look, I've owned and enjoyed this album for decades but in the history of jazz recordings I don't think it's essential. I think "Maiden Voyage" is because it moves the genre forward. This record is basically standards done well. When I get the jacket for the test pressing I'll devote more space to it. I wrote that I was not sure about the history of the tape and that I was going to ask Joe Harley about it... Yes the album is a great intro to jazz but that doesn't mean it's essential in a collection of important jazz records. As for the sound rating...that is subjective...perhaps a 10 would have been more appropriate but a9 is still damn good...
Your previous review of Classic Records reissue
Submitted by jazz on Sat, 2015-01-24 12:16
I appreaciate you Kind of put your previous review of the reissue mastered by Bernie Grundman into perspective.
I always wondered if you really don't realize the bright and artificial sounding highs of not only this Classic Records reissue you reviewed (and not only compared to the new MM Releases).
Music Matters succeeds again.
Submitted by TheThing72 on Sat, 2015-01-24 16:53
I have been a Music Matters devotee for quite a few years now. I was ecstatic to see the new set of 33 rpm albums they are releasing this year. I just finished listening to the new Kevin Gray Eric Dolphy's Out to Lunch and it was a revelation. I have never heard an original Blue Note.. but I have several different copy's of this album. The most recent being the 75th Anniversary Edition that was mastered by Alan Yoshida. While I felt like that copy captured a lot of of feel of the music, it lacked an openness allowing the instruments to breath and have a better depth of field. The new mastering is near jaw dropping in my opinion. I have been listening to this album for 25 years and I heard things tonight I never before experienced. The spacial relationships were especially huge on this version, especially Richard Davis's bass which sounded like pizzicato violin at some points. Tony Williams's kit sounded alive and so open. But I feel like Dolphy here took the cake, clicking keys, reed raspiness and just literally ripping through the speakers and into the room. Bravo! I just ordered the Maiden Voyage and look forward to hearing it. It is also one of my favorites of this period and if it s anything close to the Dolphy I will be floored.
Maybe this will be THE Maiden Voyage
Submitted by SimonH on Sun, 2015-01-25 05:01
Fingers crossed for the MM MV - I shall persevere - tried the 180gm (Mastered by Capitol) late '90's pressing and the AP 2*45 and don't get it - maybe this one will enlighten me!
I'd give this one a 10 for sound as well
Submitted by Martin on Mon, 2015-01-26 08:23
I've got a dozen or so of these MM reissues now.
I'd give Somethin' Else a 10 for sonics. It's great.
Here comes the new reissue...same as the old reissue.....
Submitted by mauidj on Wed, 2015-01-28 10:04
Wow...another reissue that amazingly sounds so much better than the last amazing reissue.
No wonder I've stopped buying into this hype.
What I Have Written
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Thu, 2015-01-29 09:16
Is not "hype". It is easily demonstrable FACT. I have played these two records at audio shows and it's obvious that the new reissue sounds far superior.
Has your playback system ever been improved? Is that "hype"?
Guess what? Mastering systems can be improved as well and when they are the records cut using them sound better.
This is not "hype". It is fact.
What the heck do you mean ??
Submitted by archiekaras on Tue, 2015-02-03 23:35
The quote below is VERY confusing. Mike, this is should be a simple thing did they 1. lose the tape or did they 2. cut this record from the original master tape?
"According to Music Matters’ Joe Harley and Ron Rambach, the original tape has long been lost in the vault due to its having been mislabeled. This reissue cut from the original tape sounds takes the album from one that sounds underwater to one that will float your Blue Note boat!"
Apparently...
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Wed, 2015-02-04 09:29
The original "Maiden Voyage" tape had been lost but now has been found....that's the best I could get about this... there is politics involved here as usual, but this was cut from tape not from digital and the results speak for themselves...
Analog or digital
Submitted by archiekaras on Tue, 2015-02-03 23:48
Hi, I would like to know if this is another CD transferred to vinyl. The stuff done by Gray is always very "secretive" ( i.e/ absolutely a digital transfer), is this one any different ?
In fact, this highlights a bigger problem with your reviews in general. I have mentioned many times in these comments ( BUT BEEN IGNORED) that area, on your website, at the top right where you post your liner notes and grades: You should ABSOLUTELY have some indication as to whether or not the record is full analog...cutter head loop back and all...or not. Given that you are one of the most vocal and visible proponents of vinyl records, why this critically important fact would be omitted from your reviews is baffling to me. If you really dont know, or it is kept secret, say so, otherwise post saying it is full analogue or not.
Some people claim that digital transfers to vinyl can still sound superior to analog plates, I call BS on that. If one wants digital transfers I think they are better off with a hi rez or cd. To those folks, owning a record is a novelty rather than passion. However, if one wants analog THEY NEED TO SEE IT EXPLICITY IN THE ^&*^ing REVIEW, OR ON THE LABLE OR ON THE RECORD LABELS WEBSITE. Am I the only one out here that would like clear indication of whether a vinyl record is analog or not ?
but I admit
Submitted by jazz on Wed, 2015-02-04 09:31
it would be a good idea to introduce a kind of "all analog yes or no" batch to the reviews here and if it's just as incentive for the "good" remastering companies, because they will then have better sales, than the others.
Take a Chill Pill !!!!!!!
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Wed, 2015-02-04 09:36
I try as often as possible to provide the source used for cutting.
Perhaps a "SPARS" code addition in the credits would be a good idea. I will discuss that with the websmaster. NONE of the Music Matters and Analogue Productions Blue Note reissues are cut from digital sources. NONE. They are cut from MASTER TAPES when available which is 99% of the time and if not in those rare instances, from copies of the master because the master no longer exists. If you watch my second DVD you will see a Blue Note mastering session with Kevin Gray at AcousTech--his old mastering facility. Also present are Steve Hoffman (no longer on the team), Ron Rambach and Joe Harley. Also there is a representative of Blue Note on hand for the session. He brought the tape from the vault and takes it back there after the mastering session.
Sterling, Cohearent, The Mastering Lab, Abbey Road and all of the other major cutting houses have preview heads not DDLs....
Classic vs MM whats changed?
Submitted by bongo-hifi on Thu, 2015-02-12 04:51
Im a bit confused;
Referring to the former review of Classic
'They are not bright or edgy, nor are they rolled-off and warm sounding--and nor is my original,'
Revisionist view
'the Classic now sounds bright and somewhat hard on top and this new reissue sounds just right and far closer to the original pressing’s overall tonality.'
If the Classic Records when you last noted and reviewed it was not "Bright or Edgy.." "and nor is my original"
what has changed since to now make it sound "bright on top"?
Are you referring to a change in your replay system or do you mean in comparison to the MM?
There also seems to be some contradiction here in that you say that whilst the Classic and your original were not bright etc somehow that has now been reversed, whilst at the same time the MM re-issue sounds closer to the overall tonality of the original.
Confused....
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Wed, 2015-02-18 12:31
Unfortunately, systems change both at home and in the mastering rooms. It would be so much easier for me to just not reference this stuff... but I'm trying to be honest. The Classic was reviewed many years ago...all I can do is play all of them now on my current system and reassess.
MM's Maiden Voyage
Submitted by Todd Lainhart on Mon, 2015-02-16 17:46
I just picked this up based on your recommendation. I have a "Mastered by Capitol" MV, and I didn't get what the deal with this recording was - it did seem "dull and underwater" as you wrote. Like other BN reissues I have from the 90's, I was starting to wonder about what the fuss was with Van Gelder.
Wow - the MM version is great! It's "above water", with space, clarity and separation that makes this special for me. Not dull, and not too bright - perfect. I think I'm getting what "tape" must sound like, and was smiling and grooving the entire time - thanks for taking the time to write about it.
My system is somewhat modest: HW-19MkIV, Ortofon 2M Black, Hagerman Bugle2 into Rogue Audio Sphinx, into Polk LSi15s. I can only imagine what this must sound like with a better front-end, but it sounds really good as is, and I loved listening to it. Thanks again!
Really want this record, but............
Submitted by Steve Edwards on Fri, 2015-05-22 13:17
I would like to get Michael's comparison of MM's version versus Analog Productions 45rpm - another $15.
Please Michael, when you get the chance...........
Comparison...
Submitted by Michael Fremer on Mon, 2015-05-25 17:21
Between the mastering of the 45rpm for AP and the 33 1/3 version for MM, Kevin Gray upgraded his electronics and made some other changes to his mastering chain, including a cable upgrade that made him a "cable believer". Were you to compare the two I think you'd prefer the 33 1/3 from MM.
Couldn't Get a Perfect Copy of MV
Submitted by AnalogJ on Tue, 2015-09-22 08:44
I went through 4 copies of the Music Matters 33 of Maiden Voyage, all of them had non-fill on one cut of side 2 to varying degrees. Of the eight Music Matters albums (both 45s and 33s) I have, it's the only one that had a consistent problem. I gave up after 4 copies.
The one other record I had a minor problem with was the 45rpm of Song For My Father. It had a slightly audible warp on disc 1. Music Matters sent me a replacement disc 1. I still had the first disc 1. Unfortunately side 2 has some non-fill. What is astonishing, though, is that this copy sounds much brighter and more alive than the first copy. Playing back to back, the first copy sounds rolled off and a bit recessed, with the trumpet and sax lacking bite. On the replacement copy, the cymbals are brighter with more, sounding more forward and immediate. The sax and trumpet have bite to the beginning of their notes and are more clearly delineated.
As these Music Matters records are done in relatively small batches, it's not as if the stampers were worn out with one copy. The current explanation, as told by Michael Fremer and Steve Hoffman, is that the time of day, among other factors, can have a big effect on the sound of the pressing. In terms of time of day, the water temperature in the middle of the day is different than that at the beginning and at the end of the day due to how the water used in the stamping process can change in temperature.
The difference is so large between the two copies, it makes me wonder about whether the whole process of reviewing is questionable. After all, the copy you have which sounds rolled off and a little deader could merely be due to the time of day that copy was produced. I could have a very lively copy and review it, and you'll wonder what I'm talking about when you hear your's. And, of course, the sound of your system versus my system is obviously another factor. But the whole notion of "Hot Stamper" may not be a factor of the stamper, itself, at all, but rather at what time of day the copy had been pressed.
MM's - Herbie Hancock Maiden Voyage
Submitted by xtcfan80 on Fri, 2016-03-25 13:43
I just listened to my MM version of Maiden Voyage last night. Fantastic sound and flat, quiet pressing. My wife kept commenting "Who is the trumpet player? His sound is so full and beautiful" That's Freddie Hubbard, dear, at the height of his powers, I replied... Yeah..I married well...
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